• 10 days

    According to Huffman, Reddit has grown to the point where personalization is increasingly necessary to help users find relevant communities and discussions.

    More lies from Spez.

    The change could also benefit Reddit’s advertising business by allowing it to serve more personalized ads

    The actual reason.

    • 10 days

      spez wants a bubble algorithim to feed their users propaganda slop like facebook

        • 10 days

          Probably not a coincidence with the midterm timing. He just wishes he had done this three weeks ago.

      • Yesterday I browsed “/r/all” for the first time in like 3 or more years (I stopped using reddit altogether a long time ago). Holy shit I felt like my brain would melt, there was so much ragebait and misinformation that asks for primal engagement. The links I opened that seemed interesting lead to nowhere and the comments were so fucking dumb. Despite all that I kept scrolling looking for that sweet hit, I must have spent at least an hour of my time that I threw away. Thank God I jumped ship when I saw the direction it was heading.

        • The only account left that I have there was porn subscriptions only. I scrolled through it recently: It tries to make me mad about some political bull shit in-between all the NSFW. Really strange 🧐

        • Same. I went to reddit yesterday and it of course served me racist trash.

          There are two subs for Sweden, one with 300k subscribers for normal people, and one with like 60k subscribers for terminally online fascists. The latter gets 10x exposure on the frontpage.

          Fuck reddit, spez and EA.

    • 10 days

      The actual reasons are certainly numerous but also certainly zero of them are “helping users find relevant communities and discussions”.

      • pretty much code words for “we need more fresh humans to login , because we just have bots running the site now”

    • 10 days

      It’s not entirely wrong, in that Reddit is so full of bots and junk that a sizeable chunk of the site is unusable. Any animal photo subreddit often has more bots than a farm.

      It’s either personalise or have the deluge.

      Coincidentally, Reddit has just announced plans to shutter their RSS feeds, so if you were using those to personalise your feed, good luck.

        • 10 days

          It does not, but you can block/unsubscribe from communities that have too many of them on the main feed, or block particular users from showing up, which can help with the repeats. That otherwise takes more logic on RSS, and isn’t really possible on the website.

      • that will not stop botting at all, bots already can make accounts very easily because they dont care how much gets banned if they can create more, they can automate it. but normal users cant do that, because they will get banned very quickly. what spez saying is a lie anyways.

        also reddits have shown to preference not to filter out most propaganda botting anyways.

        most users are lurking because they dont want to have account ban.

    • 10 days

      Pushing people into echo chambers isn’t even needed because people do that themselves. If you’re gonna profile people, autosubscribe all the libs to r/guns and all the conservatives to r/gender theory. At best people will learn something; at worst we’ll get a show.

      Also, fuck Spez and fuck surveillance capitalism.

    • more like AI companies not finding reddit useful anymore to scrap= forcing spez to make reddit a login site only.

  • 10 days

    Good! Finally the last holdover users will reconsider open source alternatives

    What we need now is for every modteam on Reddit who have an alternative on Lemmy, to actually advertise it. Now is the time to do so.

    A pinned post should do great to point people in the right direction

    • 10 days

      Finally the last holdover users will reconsider open source alternatives

      The holdover users already have accounts, so this change will not affect them.

      • Welcome!

        Just remember Lemmy is only part of a larger network called the Fediverse. If you find you don’t really like it, there are other alternatives like Mbin and PieFed. They’re all pretty good I think, but Mbin is probably my personal favorite. There are also custom lemmy interfaces like old.lemmy.world, as well as lots of different mobile clients.

        All the different instances and platforms can tall talk to each other, so you can subscribe to communities you like from any of them, as long as they are connected (aka federated). So somebody on https://kbin.earth/ (an Mbin instance) could subscribe to !micromobility@lemmy.world (a community on a Lemmy instance) and post there, browse, etc. even though they’re different websites.

        You can sign up for any instance you want and if you hate them all, you can even make your very own.

        • 10 days

          This is a great breakdown.

          I’ll share I pretty much only signed up for lemmy.world because I looked up which one had the most users (not that it seems to matter with all the crossover).

          I wonder if there’s another instance I’d like more!

          • I made accounts on a few different ones to check them all out but I started in kbin.social while it was still a thing (the admin had some health issues I heard, hope he’s doing ok). Kbin was the predecessor to Mbin, which got picked up by some other devs thankfully.

            • 9 days

              Kbin.social was my first too, Ernest was a king and I hope he’s doing well and thriving in life.

              Made a handful of alts when it became clear kbin was going away. Ended up using .zip as my main as I like their hands-off approach to moderating/defederation. We’re federated with everyone except malicious/criminal instances by default. If you don’t want to see things you need to block them yourself which I like a lot.

          • 10 days

            It’s likely the one most similar to Reddit, for better or worse.

          • worlds is the largest one, but its problematic if you dont block the politics communities ones, i made one on lemmytoday as my goto.

        • 10 days

          What would you say makes Mbin your favorite compared to Lemmy? What mobile app do you use for Mbin?

      • i came from a ban, at the time i remember lemmy was remember during the API crisis, then i just made account, on instance, when it got shut down i went to another instance.

      • 10 days

        The advantage lemmy has is that unlike reddit, you can easily make a community of the same name, just on a different server in the case of mod disagreements.

        Its MUCH harder to powertrip on lemmy, both because the mod tools are ass, and spinning a new community isnt hard.

        Didn’t like tenforward have tHe Exodus drama with some mod?

        • Its MUCH harder to powertrip on lemmy, both because the mod tools are ass, and spinning a new community isnt hard.

          Do Lemmy instances also have that “no brigading” rule of Reddit that only exists for mods?

          Because I think that rule contributed a lot to make mods more heavyhanded on their communities, even if they didn’t intend to.

          • unfortunately they dont, but its easier to block the whole instance. at least 2 instances crossbanned me, even if barely interacted with those.

        • Much harder to powertrip you say? Have you looked in the modlogs and see how moderators ban users in multiple instances that is unrelated to the original instance? It’s very reddit like.

          • 10 days

            I think you mean communities (subreddits), and that can appear that way with an instance (server) ban.

      • 10 days

        You got a point… What i meant to say is whoever is maintaining the migration of content to lemmy. Hope they put some effort into advertising Lemmy as a viable alternative.

      • the reddit mods of the large subs should not be one on here, because many of them are powermods(they have hordes large accounts under thier belt, plus i heard many of those are in cahoots with the admins of reddit.

        what lemmy needs is the niche subs. also indian subs are pretty much taking over reddit, solely because of the sheer number of people in india, apparently they dont have a sole “social media” platform of thier own. and i heard this is drama with india subs, solely because of the BJP bots.

          • same, they only started appearing on reddit after musk/trump was "deciding to " limit h1b visa last year it was getting more attention than it should. reddit is likely going to be an “indian only reddit” mostly because they have the sheer number of people using it, more than most other countries combined.

      • 10 days

        Hi, I’m part of the Community Team for Lemmy.World. We help with finding moderators, make sure communities are kept up, and make sure moderators follow the site rules.

        To some extent mods are mods. There will always be people who disagree, vehemently, and some people who resent any rules or moderation at all.

        I mention this because there are a couple things I’ve tried to do on our instance to address Reddit mistakes. First, I try to avoid having several large communities under the same mods. The mod who holds a grudge in !trees shouldn’t be able to ban you from !science. (Assuming those are both large communities).

        This can be difficult, because you’d be surprised at how few extremely active people are willing to moderate even a tiny community. The other is that instead of putting out advertisements to recruit for mods, I try to draft mods. So our mods are not limited to those who seek out the position.

    • 10 days

      Good! Finally the last holdover users will reconsider open source alternatives

      LOOOOLOLOL brother, I want some of what you’re smoking because I want to exist in this reality where people are fleeing Reddit rather than flocking to it. This only affects logged-out visitors, not so much “users”. Most platforms have been this way for a long time and seen no such decline either. Pretty much the entire internet is already account-gated.

      • Pretty much the entire internet is already account-gated.

        Already account-gated and increasingly human-verification-gated as well.

    • The problem with that is, every mod on reddit already has an account and likely will not notice anything based on this change.

    • It mostly affects people who use Reddit to search people discussing stuff. Unfortunately I don’t think the Fediverse is indexed much, plus some niche communities/interests just doesn’t have the critical mass.

  • 10 days

    I wonder how advertisers on Reddit will respond to this? It will certainly result in less ad views.

    • Maybe Reddit will make up for it with all the traffic coming from bots.

      • 10 days

        Maybe ads have two messages in such a scenario. One advertisement for human viewing and another hidden function with prompt injection, prompt leaking or other function for AI bots. Ah, glorious dystopia…

      • you see here, bots/AI bots are less useful than you think, it actually detracts from the traffic. because bots dont produce useful traffic to the site at all( they dont post meaningful comments/posts) that AI can scrape.

        thats why Open AI/and google stop referencing them in thier “AI slop generators” this forced reddit to make Old reddit inaccesible to lurkers, and now they are forcing log ins. the NEW UI is a horrid feature, even for people who “likes to use REDDIT”.

        the sources of bots come from propaganda farms like russian troll farms israeli bot farms, apparently India has thier own bot farms targeted at indian Subs. I suspect the majority of the sub will probably cater to india eventually, because they have 1bn+people who likely wil uses reddit.

        the other source is the lowest hanging fruit that reddit filters out, the single users with hundreds of account whos pam on the site.

    • 10 days

      The argument would be that they provide " higher quality, more targeted views" which is probably correct.

      Most people will fold and get the account, what’s one more " sign in with Google" on top of the 1000 other accounts.

      • 10 days

        Most people will fold and get the account

        Well, except for the (apparently) vast swathes of long-time users who get permabanned for bullshit reasons (or no given reason at all) and then can’t make a new account because of “ban evasion.” I guess they just aren’t allowed to experience Reddit at all, even lurking.

        • I got banned for ban evasion recently. I do have two old accounts, but neither were banned before so idk why lol.

          Their website is so shit that I can’t even ask why. The auto mod sent me a DM and says if I want further info to reply to that message, but I have to accept the message request. Which I can’t do because I’m banned.

        • the reason is that, permban has caused many to just lurk on the site instead. even the ones that still have accts are afraid to login. they want people to login, but htier AI moderation/filters are still yay high. plus its not even stopping most bots / AI botting anyways, they can just create a single use account, post and move onto the next thing.

        • 10 days

          This is a good point. You lose existing users through attrition. How do you attract new subscribers to a site they cannot see?

          They could leave the front top 50 posts of the day available as an attractor. With a “sign up to see more” banner at the end of the scroll. Is current leadership smart enough to do that?

          • On the former, yes. Maybe we will luck into attrition being greater than the users they will attract.

            For the latter–maybe?

            At this point I think it is best for Reddit to quietly wind down and just go away. Eventually it is just going to be a right wing hellhole.

            • reddit already lost to attrition, which is why they want people login. first the purges came last year, reduced overall traffics and users, but not botters, then AI stop using reddit as a datamine, because its not useful if all your content is also AI generated.

          • They went with the assumption that as Google buys their data and replaces their links in search queue with LLM gen answers, their organic traffic from searches would get reduced into nothingness, so they can push their login requirement with little drawbacks. They increase price of each ad via personalization in a short run, but without a drag of the likes of Instagram, Discord, Whatsapp etc there would hardly be new users to create content.

          • maybe they shouldnt do massive purges after the eleciton, and at musks request twice last year, that definitely had an effect users whos has been caught in the crossfire. not only the AI filters ban people on politics, but everyone else using the site, basically they only need a small inkling of “botting” to even ban you.

    • Sad thing ad networks will perceive it to be better since they better tie tracking between networks and thus better impressions. Don’t matter to me though I just recently gone the next step of filtering Readit out of my search results and have never been happier.

    • Surveillance capitalism follows the same rules as capitalism; do whatever is most profitable. The deception/manipulation/propaganda algos are 10-1000x more valuable when they’re able to target you as an individual; across all accounts, space, and time. The users hardest to swindle, who already gave a shit about privacy/anonymity, have already left.

      Most advertising on reddit is guerrilla marketing, and reddit either runs their own bots or explicitly enables them to inflate activity and engagement.

    • Don’t worry, they have all the data on that, and I’m pretty sure they thought of it.

      Fact is that most visits from search engines don’t go very deep anyway. They are allowing a brief glimpse at one page before they start prompting you to log in, and that is likely driving logins while barely shortening those SEO visits, which are not of great value in the first place.

      It may come as a surprise but websites often have traffic they don’t want. I recall once my boss noticed there was a non-negligible amount of traffic from parts of the world none of our advertisers care about. He built an endless revolving door of promo offers and directed this traffic into it. It didn’t generate much money but it made the rest of our traffic look higher quality right away.

    • spez just wants to give it to AI companies to scrape for a fee, they already charge 60mil/year to let google have the data.

  • 10 days

    I gave up on reddit when they banned 3rd-party API access. I use Boost for Lemmy so it looks like reddit minus the karma whores, bots, and general shittiness.

    I suppose some reddit users might find the distributed nature of the fediverse too complicated, but honestly I’m not sure if those folks would be much of a benefit to us here.

    • I got permanently banned for reposting the Alex Peretti shooting to bring awareness to it, reddit was constantly removing posts that day. I had my account for 17 years. Then they also banned my alt account that I had for 16 years because of “ban avoidance” - the digital fingerprint they had for me was tied to both accounts apparently.

      Fuck reddit.

      • 10 days

        I got banned for being pro-choice (pro-abortion really) and thinking women are people. They got all my accounts.

        Pathetic website.

      • reddit/spez mostly sucks musks Knob now, and by extension trump and the gop. dont forget that in 2016, they did the same thing, by banning many subs.

    • 10 days

      onbording through apps is good enough that users might not even notice a difference, the main hurdle is understanding the interconnectivity of instances and them actually leaving their jail

      • 10 days

        Yep I use voyager and can barely tell a difference. I will admit lemmy from browser is still a bit confusing

    • i think people will use old reddit on logging in, until reddit removes it. and then people will use reskinning extensions to make it old reddit before reddit finally somehow restricts that too.

    • 10 days

      Same. Got banned for using a single word (actually forgot what it haha), and deleted my account. Now that it’s becoming login only, it’s even better to kick my habit.

  • 10 days

    I remain utterly discombobulated that 90% of redditors haven’t already migrated here. What exactly are they waiting for? Lemmy clearly is more than good enough already.

    • Users love big tech. They pretend not to, but they love their shackles.

      For instance, when Twitter was bought by Elon and people had that big migration wave… Mastodon was right there, a fully matured ecosystem, same or even better features… yet the majority picked Bluesky, the “features” Bluesky offered are there in Mastodon, the only difference is Bluesky is also owned by private tech bros.

      • 9 days

        That’s a good point, but I think it’s mostly a matter of marketing.

        I also believe that decentralization scares most users. Isn’t really hard, but scary for others.

        And, there is also the algorithm. I got someone I know to join mastodon. Like a month later, left because couldn’t discover interesting people to follow(I totally understood).

        • 9 days

          Ugh discovery. I also get it, but also there’s a thing called surfing the web: you just click around and keep surfing from one link to the next and before long you have enough follows to satisfy even the most voracious scroller.

      • tbh the main culprit is ease of use. Icspent time on mastodon looking for content, and finding it is challenging. plus the very nature of federation adds more complexity and non-tech people do not explore because they enjoy it like many tech-heads.

        the centralized, spoonfed approach is just simpler. it takes a somewhat hardcore desire for privacy, security to drive one through the difficulty.

      • Which is insane, because reposts were rampant on reddit, to the point that I rarely saw anything new that wasn’t a news article.

        • 9 days

          That’s kind of why I like Lemmy better. Rarely do I see reposted content. At one point I had a spreadsheet where I would log how many times I saw the exact same post on TIL or YSK.

          Smaller communities are better.

      • 9 days

        I would’ve seen their point maybe a couple years ago, but I can’t remember the last time I got to the bottom of the all feed here. And sister, I can scrrrroll. Like I start to grow mushrooms and I’m pretty sure my cat partially melds with me.

        • As a person who tries to post a lot here to bring more content, it looked a lot different around here even 6 months ago.

          • 9 days

            Thank you for your service.

            I also mod a couple communities on another account. Turns out if you just post things you’re interested eventually other people will join in and then you can just sit back and enjoy.

            • Yes! Hopefully with Lemmy being a bit more bustling now, the reddit users who are turned off by the login requirement will be more likely to stick around.

    • Joined Lemmy about a month ago after 17 years of using Reddit. Account was deleted. A once very great haven for open discussion has turned into one of censorship inundated with bots to push propaganda. The writing was on the wall in 2015 and while its demise started slowly the rate enshitification grew.

      What I don’t understand is given it’s inundated with bots posting/commenting to direct the narrative, what is the point of creating more obstacles for the common person to be duped. You’d think they’d want to keep it easy access to spread their “message”.

      • 9 days

        They have the top google spots now for just about any question on any topic.

        Obviously the next step is to use that position to their advantage – hide the content until the user is logged in. The Pinterest Strategy.

      • Control and tracking is the reason, and selling that data.

        Those “obstacles” are there for profit, and probably some censorship. If the user says something they don’t like, they’re easier to ban or have the algorithm not show the post.

    • 9 days

      A lot of the OG’s have moved over. From Diggs exoduses (exodi? exodipodes?) We’re always the first to move, though. Digital nomads.

      And the ones that would have been on Digg had they been born a decade or more earlier.

      Eventually everyone else follows us, the new platform turns to shit, and we migrate again.

      I hope the open, federated nature of lemmy prevents that…or at least delays it.

      • 9 days

        Yeah I feel like with lemmy you could just move to a smaller network/graph of federated servers. Actually I think some splintering of the fediverse would be a good thing if its numbers keep trending up.

        Also the fediverse is crazy cheap to access. Like I’ve got a $8/mo CAD server running a dozen websites and a snac2 instance and it doesn’t choke even a bit.

      • 9 days

        Lemmy sure has porn, it’s just tucked away neatly in other instances that are not federated to the rest of the network.

      • 9 days

        I do want some of them, yes. But perhaps most I want reddit to burn.

    • I understand that in many of the most popular subreddits (if not site-wide) mentioning Lemmy is forbidden or rewarded with a ban.

    • Network effect. The communities and discussions are still there. Lemmy has the infrastructure, mostly, but not the users and not the discussions at least not in anywhere near the same volume.

      There’s also a few seriously missing features with Lemmy, for example modmail.

      I have also found, overall, as stupid and crazy as this may be, when discussing anything involving politics users on Lemmy can be almost militantly closed-minded. I find more intelligent discussions on Lemmy, but I also find more of the ‘you either agree with me or you’re everything that’s wrong with the world’ type.

    • Is Piefed better? I don’t like how duplicates aren’t combined on Lemmy.

      Either you don’t think about which instance to join, and inadvertently join a conservative one. Or you do think about which instance, and it’s daunting.

      • It isn’t really that daunting, most people can just go to join-lemmy.org and any one there would be fine.

        Lemmy is also not quite version 1, it is going to change a lot soon when v1 drops because there is a plugin system.

    • 9 days

      I share a bunch of links here from time to time and Lemmy needs communities and content. It is not an insurmountable scenario, because Reddit was also much smaller at the time of the Digg exodus. Lemmy and similar sites in the Fediverse have improved since a few years ago, back when the only topic of conversation was beans and the site ran very slowly.

    • 10 days

      It’s been a nothing experience for me for years. I don’t miss it, honestly. Life goes on.

  • Spez: “I’m not logged in here with you—you’re logged in here with me!”

  • It won’t be long before the website is gone entirely and you have to use the app.

        • 10 days

          I sadistically don’t like this.

          Generally I’m all for things like this, but I don’t want there to be workarounds and backdoors to prolong reddit’s life.

          It want the acceleration towards its death to increase. I don’t want people to be able to enjoy it so that the spell of the addiction (one I was guilty of) can be broken.

          I think we can all do our part by blocking the website from our search results. Let it just hemorrhage and die with its bot network and shitty people.

          • Until you find or create a replacement that is easier to use than Reddit/Lemmy/PieFed and appeals to the same gigantic audiences as well as serve heroic amounts of web traffic as much as reddit serves each hour of each day without lag or latency, it will never die within your lifetime.

            • 10 days

              You could have said the exact same thing about Digg or MySpace 15 years ago.

              Reddit is difficult to replace, but not nearly as difficult as you imply. Serving a lot of web traffic with low latency is a well documented and solved problem. And a competitor does not go from zero to 100 million users over night, they have plenty of time to scale. Countless companies have accomplished this.

              Reddit is, by and large, an extremely basic concept. It’s a link sharing site with comment trees. Undergrads could spin up a similar website in a week, albeit less scalable. But again, there is plenty of time to figure out the scaling issue.

              • I think you may have misunderstood what I’m saying: you can’t kill reddit. You can only try to atrophy their users with better sites that only attract their niche audiences, including their shitty users as well.

                • 10 days

                  Oh no, I was being dumb haha.

                  Either the site dies, or I do lol. I agree with you, it won’t die before I do.

            • 10 days

              Lol, websites are born and die constantly. Nobody knows what the next big thing will be but reddit will definitely die within our lifetime.

              Remember MySpace? How about Friendster?

  • I don’t want curated posts only of my interest. I love /all for the scrolls. It’s a sad shell of what it used to be with leadership that wishes they were Elon.

  • 9 days

    I guess I kind of understand why companies want you to be logged in to engage with their platform, as the user metrics are the main selling point to advertisers, but man do I really fucking hate it when a platform forces me to log in by preventing me from using their website. So much so, that I haven’t made an account on Instagram or X or Facebook or whatever dumb social media platform specifically because I can’t browse without signing up. Well, that, and also the greed, the lack of privacy, the tacit endorsement of fascism, et. cetera.

    No, I don’t want to make an account.

    No, I don’t want to download your app.

    No, I don’t want to turn on notifications.

    Gah, fuck off with all this horseshit. The internet used to be fun. Now everything is a chore and nobody does anything unless they feel like they can make a profit off of it.

    • 9 days

      No, I don’t want to make an account.

      No, I don’t want to download your app.

      This combo drives me up the fuckin wall.

      Obviously I think reddit is trash, but I can kind of understand other forums requiring a login (several of the small, private communities I’m a part of require them) but there is no good reason to push people to an app other than avarice.

      • It’s extra frustrating because I created cosmetic filters for uBlock Origin that allow me to access individual Reddit posts (so I can still read Reddit posts that I find through a search engine) but not any of the feeds so that I can’t waste time scrolling. I can’t use those on the app.

  • Do we know what percentage of visits are from not logged in visitors? I imagine that all the people that visit reddit through searches for information are not likely to be signing up for a account, so they will be losing a bunch of that traffic and ad revenue.

    Putting all that community generated information behind a login screen is a massive loss even if you don’t use the site regularly.

    • Hell, I feel like the scraping problem still won’t be solved either since I can immediately see a repost/archive site being made that just mirrors reddit using account bots.

      Host it in a country that doesn’t recognize US corporate law, and you’ve got an instant in to a massive userbase.