- Pratai@piefed.caEnglish5 minutes
Logic isn’t an effective tool to use against the type of idiots this meme is directed at. The only thing they understand is either manufactured outrage, or written in Russian.
- 2 hours
Of course they are not the same.
Republicans are corrupt to the bone. Openly racist, pedophile protecting, destroying the democracy, etc. I could go on.
Democrats have some corruption and some bought politicians and in contrast to the Republicans even a handful of good ones!
- 59 minutes
Both are bad, one is far worse, and the corrupt politicians on both sides are bought by the same types of corporate and political interests. Chuck Schumer, Haley Stevens, and John Fetterman are particularly egregious examples.
I don’t know why so many Americans can’t understand this.
If both parties are the same then why is one party trying to do every possible thing to make it difficult for certain groups of legal US citizens to simply vote, let alone challenge every single outcome where they don’t win?
Well see this guy I know says that its better to not vote because then youre playing into their hand and you should just be an individual, because all campaigns are just a money funnel to see who can make the most money, and the government creates monopolies with corporations so we need to get rid of government and instate a king.
Actual words I heard today. Jfc people be dumb.
- bountygiver [any]@lemmy.mlEnglish2 hours
Because it matters for them to win, their ego don’t allow otherwise.
They also thought they are the masters when they are happily serving the real masters.
2 hoursBoth parties lead to the same policy outcomes.
But individuals within the respective parties reap extraordinary benefits when they are in control of the contracting process for these policies.
The corrupt system is not less cut throat because multiple people are trying to exploit it.
- 2 hours
Both parties lead to the same policy outcomes.
Disagree.
There is a point I agree about the rest though. Jeffries needs to get the boot. I think Chuck’s ready to retire.
- 2 hours
The system is corrupt, not everyone involved is corrupt or has been corrupted. I do my best to learn who isn’t corrupt, but we live in this system and not participating in it only hurts me.
The system is corrupt, not everyone involved is corrupt
Sort of the bitch of a corrupt system. You don’t need everyone to be on the take for the system to be hopelessly spoiled.
I do my best to learn who isn’t corrupt
That doesn’t keep them out of office
It’s easy on the mind to falsely equate the two parties but there’s a reason there aren’t El-Sayeds, Tlaibs, Sanders, AOCs, Mamdanis, and Talaricos within the Republican coalition but exist in Dem circles. There’s a reason Dems end more wars than they start. There’s a reason Dems brought around Same-sex marriage. There’s a reason a Dem president worked hard to get the JCPOA passed but a Republican one undermined it.
Both sides are thus far from the same. Democrats are undeniably better. This is a false equivalence fallacy.
For the record, I have this user tagged as supporting Jill Stein in 2024, pushing a spoiler vote that only ever enables Republicans.
I have voted for Jill Stein three times now. If you want me to vote for the Democratic candidate, the solution is simple: get them to adopt Stein’s platform.
I don’t have any particular loyalty to Stein or even to the Green Party in general. Politics isn’t a team sport for me. All I care about is policy.
- 1 hour
“v0te Blüē N0 MaTT3r whö” 🦉
All they care about is their team winning and get mad at anyone who questions their party facilitating a fkn genocide.
- 18 minutes
Sometimes I think breaking the two party system is the single most necessary thing for the USA. All this back and forth and debate about voting vs not voting and lesser evilism is ridiculous.
How the fuck did it ever get to a situation where you have two parties who both oppose electoral reform but you’re afraid to not vote for one of them in case the worse one wins?
This is democracy theater.
I’m so tired of having to choose between the lesser of two evils. It’d be nice to vote for someone I’d actually want for a change.
One party sends paramilitary in black vans to kidnap innocent children (because the governor of that city dared to challenge Dear Leader). Oh and their leader is a child rapist.
The other party candidate had a weird laugh. Wow, hard choice isnt it.
- 26 minutes
One party sends paramilitary in black vans to kidnap innocent children
When was it that Biden abolished ICE? Or when was it that Harris gave any indication that she intended to?
Both parties send paramilitary in black vans to kidnap innocent children. You just want them to act more polite about it.
You’re thinking in absolutes here. Harris still supports Israel but I’d still vote for her over Trump again if I’d have to. I want someone who would support Palestine and improve quality of life for all in the US.
Yeah but we can’t have it all. Maybe someday if the kids are as brave as the French. Still better to vote the lesser evil.
- III@lemmy.worldEnglish54 minutes
Was that the place those people whose genocide Trump fully supports? The place he agreed should be bombed so he could build a hotel there? That place?
- 2 hours
I’m sure minimizing the concerns people have with the Democratic centrists by writing it off as the AIPAC-funded will-endorse-a-republican-if-a-Muslim-is-the-alternative ones just having “had a weird laugh” will totally make them see you as a worthwhile and trustworthy ally!
The fact the candidates I like don’t make it past the primaries.
- III@lemmy.worldEnglish55 minutes
It’s a good thing you get to support and vote for your more preferred candidate in the primaries. You should help them reach more people.
- freely1333@reddthat.comEnglish2 hours
Yeah billionaires are for sure backing both parties too so it doesn’t mean much here.
- 1 hour
How do you completely and so amazingly miss the point of the discussion?
- freely1333@reddthat.comEnglish31 minutes
Billionaires paying for both parties makes them the same not different
- ButteryMonkey@piefed.socialEnglish1 hour
Is this the lady from the good place? Elanore? Im faceblind but gosh it looks like her based on lots of cues, and if so that’s very fitting.
Because this is the bad place but we could make it a better place!
- darthsundhaft@piefed.socialEnglish2 hours
Billionaires are also funding the people elected though… so the logic only goes so far.
- 6 hours
Reposting my own comment here:
I live somewhere with 2 Republicans on the ballot for one seat with no write in line.
I could have not voted at all on that item, but that wouldn’t have helped anybody but the worst of the two candidates.
I poured through more interviews and candidate statements from these two trashy people than any other candidate I voted for, just to find the one that was the least evil.
I still hate them both, but I voted for one to try and stem the bleeding because that’s how our Democracy works.
And adding a quote from Rage Against the Machine’s Tom Morello:
But in any and every contested race, as my mom Mary Morello always said, we have to fight the fascist every which way we can, recognizing that even if there’s but an inch of difference between two candidates, there are a lot of vulnerable people who could be greatly harmed in that inch.
- Bytemeister@lemmy.worldEnglish4 hours
Remider that voting in a Democracy is the bare minimum.
Everday citizens can protest, attend town halls, call their elected officials (or their opponents) and make their views heard. You can donate money, and if you can’t donate money, you can donate time, and if you can’t donate time, you can bring attention to issues that you want to change in your everyday life.
Voting is the most important thing you can do right now, but don’t forget the other stuff. Behind every politician is a team, behind that team are supporters, and behind the supporters are voters. You get to choose your level of engagement.
No shame on people that only vote. That’s better than 4 out 5 other Americans this year.
If only you lived in a democracy, lmao.
You know it’s been an oligarchy since your country’s founding right?
- Lovable Sidekick@lemmy.worldEnglish5 hours
Presumably an unopposed seat on a ballot proves some generalized point about elections or America or something.
- 4 hours
It’s California. There’s an open primary, I happen to live in one of the few red parts and for one spot the top two vote getters in the primary were Republican.
They didn’t run unopposed, the opposition just all failed to get a consensus. CA’s system isn’t perfect, but realistically a Democrat doesn’t have a chance in this particular district, maybe the less evil Republican has a shot though.
US elections involve some compromise. Vote for your ideal candidate in the primary, but after that there’s generally only 2 people who have any shot at a given seat, and throwing away your vote in protest helps the worst candidates succeed. That’s why elections spend so much money on attack ads - they want you feeling discouraged.
- tazeycrazy@feddit.ukEnglish3 hours
If this is your situation and you can’t even vote for the lesser of two evils or tactfully, you can spoil your ballot. It shows that you are not represented by the options given but also still believe in the need for representation and the democratic system. I drew a box that said none of the above.
And your vote got tossed in the box after being electronically tabulated like everyone else’s where no human ever even saw it. That guy’s actually accomplished something.
- SwingingTheLamp@piefed.zipEnglish4 hours
And I keep saying that if stemming the bleeding is the best we can hope for, then that’s how democracy fails. Vote for the slightly-better candidate, by all means, that’s the best move in the here-and-now. But, unless we change the rules, it’s gonna be the same best move next time, too, and the patient only has so much blood.
Morello makes a very Utilitarian argument. The trouble is that it works equally well when your choice is between Hitler, who wants to murder 5,000,000 people, and Hitler Lite, who wants to murder 4,999,995 people. It makes all the difference for those 5 people, and voting for Hitler Lite is the best move.
My math is a little off, but can you remind me how many people died after 2018, again?
I recall it was more than one. COVID alone, I think it was somewhere north of a million, in fact.
- SwingingTheLamp@piefed.zipEnglish3 hours
This cartoon symbolizes one election cycle. We can argue about how many people should be depicted on the siding, but since there are 16 people on the main line, the Utilitarian argument works even if there are up to 15. And that’s what’s been happening: Labor got tied to the tracks in the '70s with the election of Jimmy Carter. Poor people joined them with the election of Bill Clinton. Palestine as a whole got tied to the tracks next to them in 2024. And now, they’re flirting with adding trans people to the line-up. And, no, that does not obviate the fact that the Republicans are indeed worse.
But that’s beside my point. This cartoon doesn’t depict the erosion of democracy and the crumbling of civil institutions. That can only go on for so long before the whole system fails.
- 60 minutes
On the other tracks should be millions of people in the global south
- SwingingTheLamp@piefed.zipEnglish3 hours
That’s great, but my comment has nothing whatsoever to do with tankies.
- 59 minutes
We’ve explained to you so many times how you’re using the word wrong and yet you continue to do it. You’re a terrible troll.
- 2 hours
Tankies. College kidz on drugs. Russian propaganda beneficiaries. Billionaire bots. Liberal-haters.
They put on quite a show here and in a few other places near election times. Afterwards they tend to fizzle out. Or stick to one or two comms about gaming.
- SwingingTheLamp@piefed.zipEnglish2 hours
First, this user tells me that tankies are bad. Tankies think that the system is bad, and that its collapse is an unqualified good.
Then, they switched to accelerationists. Accelerationists want the system to collapse hard and fast, so that people don’t acclimate to poorer conditions, and get motivated to fix the system.
Meanwhile, I’m warning that the system is going to collapse, and we need to fix it ASAP.
Hence, my question. What the heck is they on about, now?
- 54 minutes
Different factions of the same plutocratic class. Whoever is voted benefits more than the other, but you still lose either way.
- 20 minutes
One wants to murder children, the other wants to murder and rape children. See, tankies, they’re not the same at all!
- 3 hours
The analogy that bombing poors is to the commander in chief as breathing is to normal people is probably a little more based than you meant it to be
- 3 hours
Cool. Though I don’t know why you’re telling me since that’s not an analogy I drew.
Is there another interpretation of “They also both breathe air. Wait a minute, do YOU breathe air too??” that I’m missing somehow?
- 1 hour
It’s a fairly straight forward look at some other things they (and possibly the person I was talking to, jury’s still out on that) have in common. No value judgement.
- 1 hour
The Author Is Dead, you’re entitled to your opinion and whatever I may have intended is of course of secondary importance.
- 3 hours
What a clown-ass comment.
What’s a few wars of aggression between friends? What does it matter how many hundreds of thousands of people you kill, who’s counting?
B-but Trump bulldozed the East Wing of the White House! That’s what really matters!
- 3 hours
Millions. They’ve killed millions within the last few decades and hurt many millions more.
There people care more about price of gas and some rose garden than many millions killed in their name.
Fkn deplorables have the nerve to get mad at anyone criticizing the Democrats instead of getting mad at their party for facilitating and funding a fkn genocide in front of our eyes.
- 3 hours
I agree that the real number is higher, I only say hundreds of thousands because it is irrefutable that at least that many died, it’s horrific regardless of the exact number, and I want to avoid getting sidetracked by an argument about the details of who to count or what sources are more reliable.
- 2 hours
- (around 50 are known, but likely much, much higher since records are being hidden or not reported) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaths_in_ICE_detention
- (this is about 4,000,000 per year) https://ph.ucla.edu/news-events/news/research-finds-more-14-million-preventable-deaths-2030-if-usaid-defunding
- (this is about 7000 of all lives, not too mention the children they’ve killed in Iran) https://iranwarlive.com/casualties
- 1 hour
50
7000
That’s nothing compared to the scale of death from the full-scale invasion and occupation of Afghanistan, which Obama (like Trump) chose to continue and double down on, when he could’ve stopped it at literally any time.
USAID
Is is worse to fail to prevent death, or to cause it directly? I don’t really care to engage in this game of whether directly killing hundreds of thousands of people is better or worse than failing to prevent the deaths of millions. Like, it should be clear enough that they’re both irredeemable mass murderers who nobody should be defending.
Two things can be bad at the same time.
- 3 hours
That’s totally what I said, excellent reading comprehension, air breather.
- 3 hours
Yes, it is.
“How can you possibly compare Ted Bundy to Jeffery Dahmer? So what if they were both serial killers, they both breathed air too, hEy, DoN’t YoU bReAtHe AiR?”
Dumbest shit I’ve read in a long while.
- 4 hours
You’re right.
All people are awful and none of them should be in charge.
are you discriminating against people that breathe oxygenated perflourocarbons?
- 4 hours
Why are you dismissing the genocide in Palestine as though it’s as benign as breathing?
- 3 hours
Because the victims are mostly muslims. The Christian ones aren’t following white European Christianity, they mostly follow the old creeds so they don’t matter. They’re “sand people” and beneath the ubermensch.
Most of the USians and a significant number in the western sphere don’t even acknowledge the genocide. They’re mad at the protesters who bitch and complain about the genocide. They’re okay with zionists murdering every single Palestinian in existence. Gas prices matter more than number of innocents slaughtered.
- 56 minutes
How else could it be interpreted? If you’re not going to answer this question, don’t bother replying.
- im_fine_sandy@nord.pubEnglish3 hours
I’ve blocked a bunch of election trolls. In threads like these I can almost feel their presence.
- TheJesusaurus@piefed.caEnglish5 hours
They can read just fine, the problem is we don’t use the Cyrillic alphabet
90% of political discussions in english descend into sinophobia, russophobia, or islamophobia.
Remember if you ever disagree with someone, just accuse them of being from a group that you consider it okay to hate.
- 55 minutes
Anyone who doesn’t subscribe to the genocidal neoliberal ideology is a braindead foreigner subhuman bot, didn’t you get the memo?
- 38 minutes
I got the memo about how you’re supposed to tell trans people to enthusiastically vote against their own safety. I think I missed the other one.
- 6 hours
I don’t think the idea that certain wings of the capitalist class coalesce around different capitalist parties and therefore invest in elections heavily is antagonistic to the idea that neither party represents the interests of the working class. Capitalists are not a monolith, so they duke it out electorally, but workers end up getting crumbs at most regardless of who wins at the ballot box. It makes far more of a difference for them than it does for us.
Also think it’s funny that socialists supposedly can’t read, while also reading too much. “The enemy is both weak and strong,” yadda yadda.
- 5 hours
And yet .ml has been screeching pretty much non-stop about how elections are pointless and have no effect. And don’t flatter yourself, your silly rabble doesn’t anywhere near rise to a level of “enemy”.
- 4 hours
I’m sorry but I’m not a capitalist, whoever wins the election will continue the genocides in Palestine and Cuba, will continue the attacks around the world, will perpetuate a failing capitalist system that does not and cannot meet the needs of the people, that will not respect treaties with indigenous nations, and will not represent the working class. Elections matter most of all to the ruling class, as it picks which wing of the capitalist class will get to rule, not whether workers benefit or not.
As for socialists not rising to the level of enemy, the capitalist state certainly seems to disagree with you.
- 4 hours
Cuba
Doubt, the US was slowly improving relations with Cuba. A lot of that was undone in Trump’s first term. Fixed a bit under Biden, and now it’s absolutely horrible.
Quite literally there was an option last cycle that would have prevented what’s happening in Cuba.
As for respecting Indegious nations perhaps you should talk to some Natives. Biden’s term the Secretary of the Interior was a Native American. Her name was Deb Haaland, absolutely amazing woman. Under her guidance she protected many important indigenous sites, expanded tribal consultants (and made their say matter), and renamed countless places back to their indigenous names. Never before had the Tribal Nations been this respected. Now that Trump won he’s replaced her with an oil guy pushing an “energy dominace” agenda. Which means expanding the exploitation of federal lands for oil, gas, mining, and timber. He’s delisted several protected sites so their resources can be exploited and slashed tribal consultation.
And this is what pisses me off about people spreading the rhetoric you do. You don’t actually care about minorities or oppressed people in the slightest. You use their suffering to justify your own political agenda. Were things perfect? No there’s a long list of issues that we likely would agree on, but many things were clearly better for many marginalized groups before Trump and there was an option to keep those positive changes in place. Yet you threw up your hands declared both sides are the same and allowed the poor and oppressed to become worse off. Minorities shouldn’t be your pawns for political rhetoric. Fake ally
- 53 minutes
Doubt, the US was slowly improving relations with Cuba.
Where do you people get this shit?
Doctors are having to work 16 hours a day to manually pump air into premature babies lungs because of the American embargo on Cuba.
- 48 minutes
Why are you describing the situation created by Trump? That’s the whole point that things were made way worse than they were.
Thank you for providing supporting evidence I guess
- 42 minutes
Why do you get to spout your bullshit without supporting evidence, but when I call it bullshit, you want sources?
Relations with Cuba were not improving. That’s a lie.
- 4 hours
No, relations with Cuba were not improving. The Obama administration was working to undermine the Cuban political project, and both the Obama admin and Biden admin continued the sanctions regime on Cuba. Biden performatively removed Cuba from the state sponsors of terror list right at the end, because he knew it would get struck down. You also clearly have not spoken with indigenous peoples. Making token gestures is not at all the same as respecting prior treaties and decolonizing Turtle Island.
I care deeply about the struggles in Cuba, Palestine, and indigenous struggles here. I devote my time and money to organizing for a better world, because I know these are not problems that can be solved under capitalism. Minority nationalities shouldn’t be your pawns for political rhetoric. Get in the streets, get organized, and stop treating the tokenizing of minorities under democrats that then perpetuate their butchery and oppression as liberation.
Do better. Join an org, and stop defending the capitalist class and their cronies.
- 3 hours
Token gestures? I’ve worked closely with several tribal members in my time. They appreciated the work being done under Haaland. It was putting control of Native Lands back in to Native hands and restoring treaty agreements. Real tangible improvements in tribal sovereignty. That was undone instantly by Trump.
I’m sorry about Turtle Island, but neither candidate would do anything about that. But we had a candidate that was going to continue to expand tribal relations and tribal sovereignty within the US. Anyone that actually cared would have wanted this to continue, but I suppose the sovereignty and rights of Native American tribes isn’t as flashy for your rhetoric
- 3 hours
What’s necessary, and what indigenous groups have been demanding for centuries now, is for every treaty to be respected. What they need is the full right of self-determination, up to and including secession. This has been demanded. The reservation system isn’t sovereignty, it’s apartheid. You’re describing these relations the same way Zionists describe relations with the Palestinian Authority.
It isn’t about “flash,” it’s about what’s both necessary and possible. We absolutely can decolonize Turtle Island (the north American continent), but Democrats and Republicans alike perpetuate settler-colonialism. Again, join an org, fight for a better world.
- 3 hours
I was talking about elections in general, not the US midterm elections specifically. I actually agree that the US political system is deeply fucked up and the midterms will not bring any fundamental change. But the US are not the only country on earth and an imperfect democratic system can be improved. The kind of dictatorship you people would replace it with is definitely just going to make everything worse.
- 2 hours
How is a system based on popular councils and mass participation at all levels of government going to make everything worse? What do you think socialists are advocating for in terms of democracy?
- chloroken@lemmy.mlEnglish4 hours
You know Cowbee cooked you good when you resort to calling it “silly rabble” instead of engaging.
- 5 hours
Elon Musk poured an eye-watering amount of money for the Republicans.
More money than Soros ever did which was the Republican boogeyman.
You have to counter that while you have the chance.
- im_fine_sandy@nord.pubEnglish3 hours
Here in Australia one of our wealthiest people, Gina Rinehart, is a very vocal supporter of a party, One Nation, who’s base is predominantly disenfranchised disadvantaged Aussie battlers.
Its nonsensical to me that even an idiot could think that a billionaires interests might align with their own.
- 2 hours
I remember her, she would keep talking about how people in Africa and China would work for so much cheaper and that Australians or whatever should get used to it.
I think I remember her father hated her when he almost passed away.
It’s crazy. There’s a lot of people that like to cut off their noses to spite their face.
- 4 hours
Trying to discourage you from voting also counts as “influencing the outcome”
- 7 hours
One single dude seriously spent half a billion on this midterm. He expects a return on that investment… Don’t oblige him.
