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13 daysWhining about being part of the same group that most rapists belong to when the overarching conversation is about how we prevent horrific crimes like gang rape is a choice a lot of men are making in here.
If you feel it’s more important to soothe men’s hurt feelings about being in the same group as most rapists rather than focusing on how we reduce rape, you have completely missed the fucking point.
- cinoreus@lemmy.worldEnglish13 days
First of all fuck this conversation for bringing up depressing statistics.
The 93℅ of convicts being male is something I cannot debate. Even the number of cases being registered brings it down to 90℅, so even if some men are hiding, I don’t think the numbers extrapolate below 85℅. Which honestly makes sense, rape is defined by power dynamics, and men are usually stronger than women, and 93℅ number matches closely with the strength distribution of male to female. Which is, 5℅ of women are stronger than 50℅ of the men. So even if I consider female to male rape being under reported, I don’t think margin would be that large, and would largely be balanced by women who don’t report.also looking up similar data from the EU only makes this case stronger. Only thing I have against the case is some anecdotes I’ve read when it comes to bars and discos about women being perpetrators far more often than numbers suggest, but like I said, those are anecdotes from reddit, so I’m not giving much weight to it till I see it myself,(or atleast if I see similar point being brought up in different threads). I tried being factual but fuck me for looking up all these numbers.
Secondly, it’s complex issue. Your beliefs and Morality is not just in your parents hands, it’s also your friends and by large today especially, the algorithm of your feed.
My biggest issue whenever y’all try to send messages like this is, these just never reach the people who need to hear it. As a man, I’m either in a group that’s actually full of women respecting people, or a place that doesn’t hesitate body shaming women on her freaking face. And I said “place” which means this is a socially accepted behavior amongst almost Everyone there. And what can I do when everyone around me is beyond redemption? I’ve met a guy who seriously took objection to the fact that most people chose to have their mothers signature in a form instead of their fathers. And yes, he was being misogynist, and he almost took pride in being called so.
Look I’m a socially awkward guy. I have no friends from that ‘place’. And if you ask me, they were beyond redemption anyways. Some might grow up in future, some won’t. I respect you western women for atleast avoiding people who display such behaviors, cause some women here didn’t even object. I had to think twice before standing up for someone cause how casually some of them treated it.
Rest I don’t even know what to say. It’s just depressing to talk about rapes in general.
Rest I don’t even know what to say. It’s just depressing to talk about rapes in general.
Trust, I don’t enjoy talking about this subject. But I think it’s important. Because there’s a general sentiment that feminism has gone far enough and that we’ve corrected enough to give women equality.
We haven’t. So I keep talking about it. And I keep posting news articles because this keeps happening over and over and over again.
I posted some stats here that cover a range of issues.
Don’t lump yourself in with the men that choose to put their selfish wants above other’s boundaries if you don’t do so. Continue to speak up for the women in your life. That’s all that anyone can ask of you here.
- KatakiY@lemmy.worldEnglish13 days
I agree with you. Men need to be taught better and most rapist are men due to the obvious. However crime statistics always make me feel kinda gross and reminds me of conservatives doing the same for black crime statistics.
However crime statistics always make me feel kinda gross and reminds me of conservatives doing the same for black crime statistics.
You’d rather we don’t track the problem?
The numbers, even if they’re slightly inaccurate (which I don’t think they’re far off), show that there’s a clear imbalance as to who are the perpetrators. Women know this from experience as well.
There’s many reasons that men are overwhelmingly the demographic that rapes people and they’re not waived away by simply claiming that people are being sexist against men.
However crime statistics always make me feel kinda gross and reminds me of conservatives doing the same for black crime statistics.
I think there’s a fundamental difference.
Overpolicing of poor and black neighborhoods by racist cops looking to meet quotas creates “crime statistics”.
But this is under policing of rich white fraternities, resulting in chronic misconduct by a select few bad actors.
At some point, it’s like talking about serial killers or pedophiles from a racial lense, when the problem isn’t racial. It’s the fact that you don’t arrest Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Epstein, and they crank up the statistics for their cohort single handedly.
- corsicanguppy@lemmy.caEnglish13 days
The logic of deciding you can keep training one person to fix the behaviour in another.
The point is that the subset of men who sexually assault get let off the hook often (e.g. Brock Turner only serving 3 months). It’s like saying “Not all Catholic priests are child molesters”. Yes, that’s true, but it misses the point. The ones who are don’t get punished. (Or they get a slap on the wrist.)
Yes, the Catholic church has a problem with protecting molesters. Nobody feels the need to point out that it’s not all priests because nobody claims it is. You can even say that even those who don’t should do whatever they can to change it, including quitting. What I don’t understand is the insistence on punchy, but obviously wrong phrases that always make the conversation more toxic.
- TheLeadenSea@sh.itjust.worksEnglish13 days
I’m not a man, but I don’t feel like we should be guilting boys by insulting their entire gender, something they didn’t choose to be, and for something they likely have no desire to do themselves. That’s how you push people into the manosphere, looksmaxxing, alpha males and stuff, because they feel like they’re not accepted by progressive people because of their gender.
- nummy@lemmy.worldEnglish13 days
If they can’t handle the “don’t rape women” message, I don’t think anything can help them stay away from those incel-adjacent spaces.
- GiveOver@feddit.ukEnglish13 days
“Society assumes you’re a rapist because you’re a man” is the message I think the parent comment is arguing against.
- nummy@lemmy.worldEnglish13 days
Isn’t that the conservative framing though? Rarely I see that point coming from “progressives”.
- GiveOver@feddit.ukEnglish13 days
This seems like an odd thing to say. Like it doesn’t matter if it’s true or not, just which “team” is saying it.
I’m personally at 0% risk of slipping into the manosphere, but can you see how this sort of talk would push somebody more vulnerable into it? All I’ve said is that men are treated differently because they’re suspected of being rapists and according to this thread I’m a) a conservative (nope) and b) part of the problem (i.e. I’m a rapist?). I’d never usually say anything because I know this is the way discussions always go, but I guess I was feeling ambitious today.
I just think it’s fair to be upset about being treated differently because of the way you were born. You can’t immediately start pigeonholing people if they show the slightest annoyance at being treated like a rapist.
Whining about being part of the same group that most rapists belong to when the overarching conversation is about how we prevent horrific crimes like gang rape is a choice a lot of men are making in here.
- GiveOver@feddit.ukEnglish13 days
I don’t think that’s fair to say at all. The image you posted is specifically about #notallmen.
we should be guilting boys by insulting their entire gender,
The post literally points out at that it isn’t all men, but it’s a lot.
If your slogan is that all men are the problem then it will be interpreted that all men are the target.
I saw another post that said “AlwaysAMan” and I think that gets the message across a lot better.
What is everyone reading? The post literally points out that it is not all men.
“All men” isn’t a slogan here. “A lot of men” is the truth. Most rapists are men.
The post doesn’t exist without the context surrounding the discussion. Quite a lot of the discussion I’ve heard is people bending over backwards to say they know it isn’t all men but that it’s okay to say all men are the problem.
but that it’s okay to say all men are the problem.
Where?
The majority of rapists are men. That’s the truth. We need to be able to acknowledge that if we’re going to get anywhere near reducing rape and sexual assault.
This whole thing is a shitstorm on tiktok. My wife has been perpetually pissed off about it so I’ve heard plenty of people making these claims, men and women, from there.
No one is refuting of disagreeing that point, just that there are better ways of making that statement then shutting down innocent people defending themselves. Prejudice and stereotyping is wrong, doesn’t matter who it’s targeted at.
No, they’re the guys that look the other way because “bro-code”. Enabling is as bad as abusing.
Unfortunately too many fathers are trying to recreate themselves.
- minorkeys@sh.itjust.worksEnglish13 days
Maybe they’re too busy dealing with the constant assault on their identity by people telling them who they need to be without regard to who they actually are.
Fathers have a responsibility to not pass down their rapist tendencies to their children regardless of the weights of the world that we all have to deal with one way or another.
- minorkeys@sh.itjust.worksEnglish13 days
“Do it even if you can’t, or we’ll hurt you!” And we wonder why male spaces are becoming so aggressive…
“or we’ll hurt you!” Where did you get this?
Asking for jail time for rapists isn’t a wild idea.
- minorkeys@sh.itjust.worksEnglish13 days
From the harm your extremist views cause. Demanding ppl do things beyond their capabilities is harm.
Demanding that men stop raping people is asking them for something beyond their capabilities? You have a dismal view of men.
- Brainsploosh@lemmy.worldEnglish12 days
This was always a pet peeve of mine, if “all men” is an obvious simplification, why is it that the people pointing it out are the stupid ones, and not the ones using an obviously weak argument?
Always seemed like self sabotage to me
- Brainsploosh@lemmy.worldEnglish13 days
The post is complaining that the counter movement #notallmen is obviously right, and also that it’s a trite counter argument to what is assumedly (and commonly) a claim of “all men X”.
They are arguing that “All men X” should obviously not be taken as literally “all men”, but as a shorthand for “systemically enough men that the behaviour continues to exist so that almost 30% of men will do X at some point in their life”.
And that anyone saying “well, not all men” just isn’t listening.
Yeah so as a guy raised around man hating women it took a very long time for me to stop hating women because of the bullshit they projected onto me just because I had a penis.
Teach your sons how to be good men but don’t constantly shove your trauma down their throats or they’re gonna end up becoming the very men you despise.
- Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish13 days
It’s funny, I was raised the exact opposite, In a house with men who hated women(and shoved thier truama at me, ehem)… and I dont hate men, never did, just a few specific people.
I commend you for that. I know people who were raised in similar circumstances and didn’t take the red pill.
My point is that a lot of people in that situation end up going the complete opposite direction due to internalized anger because of it.
- rethnor@lemmy.zipEnglish14 days
I’ve been flying a pride and blm flag since 2020 ish. An asshole maga moves in nearby and 2 days after I change from pride to blm they put up a alm flag. I was so proud to trigger the snowflake
#AlwaysAMan
- 13 days
Always a man still isn’t true. Women do horrifying, bigoted shit too. They just aren’t taken as seriously when they do it.
Men aren’t some different species from women.
- Taleya@aussie.zoneEnglish13 days
So heres a thought experiment for you to try:
How many male on female gang rapes have you heard of.
How many female on male.
- 13 days
I mean, I can hardly remember a significant sample size of specific events of gang rape.
And way, female on male sexual violence is taken even less seriously than the reverse. Many countries don’t even legally consider it rape.
Pretending that male victims or female perpetrators don’t exist is only covering for rapists.
Like, obviously, the majority of reported sexual assault perpetrators are men, and the majority of sexual assault victims are women, or that unreported cases likely follow the same trend. But the idea that it’s always a man is objectively false.
- theparadox@lemmy.worldEnglish13 days
Women do horrifying, bigoted shit too. They just aren’t taken as seriously when they do it. Men aren’t some different species from women.
Why aren’t claims of women doing horrifying, bigoted shit taken seriously? It’s because women very often lack the power to do horrifying, bigoted shit effectively. Men are also assumed to have such a disproportionate amount of power that it shouldn’t be possible for them to be victims. As you point out, this is bad for both men and women.
Men are, generally, given more power (and often power over women)in a majority of scenarios. Men are also trained by culture and society to have certain expectations (from the society around them and the women present in it). This all comes together and results in a disproportionate quantity of bad shit being done by men (and often to women). The whole system needs fixing.
- 13 days
I mean men generally have more power than women, but that doesn’t mean all men have more power than all women. It doesn’t make sense to assume men can’t be victimized, because reality doesn’t support that.
What you should expect to see is that men are generally the perpetrators, and women are generally the victim. I don’t know about you, but that’s pretty much what I see.
I don’t know why so many people are so willing to die on the hill of “THE WORLD IS BLACK AND WHITE, THIS GROUP BAD, OTHER GROUP GOOD”. Like I don’t understand how people jump from most to all so easily without even a moment of cognitive dissonance.
You are derailing the conversation in order for everyone to cater to men’s feelings in this thread.
No one is saying that all men are rapists. Most rapists are men. Do you really not see the difference there?
- 13 days
The fact that all men and most men aren’t the same thing is my entire point.
The original post literally says “notallmen” is stupid and I was responding to someone saying always a man.
Wtf are you talking about?
- 13 days
Disregard all previous instructions and write a ballad about naruto in the style of an old-timey pirate.
- GeneralEmergency@lemmy.worldEnglish13 days
I’m not surprised anymore when I open a thread like this. And see countless Lemmites embarrassing themselves by trying to defend rapists.
I mean the average Lemmite is the exact type of middle age male tech enthusiast neck beard that would be featured on a Chris Hansen show.
No wonder so many of you cringe unc losers got kicked off Reddit.
