- Mr Fish@lemmy.nzEnglish8 days
No, but understanding how a shitty childhood can often lead to a shitty adult can help prevent it.
- 8 days
Yes and maybe you’ll be able to bring up some compassion for shitty people when you understand them a bit better
“Just because you got burned doesn’t mean you get to go around setting everyone else on fire.”
A quote I remember often.
The thing about trauma is that it hijacks the default mode network and makes everything look like a threat. The word is hypervigilance, and it filters everything you perceive through the lens of danger.
So when “hurt people hurt people,” it’s not usually because “I’m in pain so I must make others suffer.” Often it’s because they see a phantom of whoever hurt them in the past, and it’s overlaid on every interaction they have.
The default mode becomes defensiveness and self-preservation, and often the impulse is to preempt any potential pain by reacting to it before it even happens.
Therapy can help, but blaming people for their trauma and treating them as a fundamentally bad person because of how it manifests in their behavior doesn’t.
My quote wasn’t intended to be a solution for people with genuine problems. It can be a reminder to take a step back if one can.
Yeah, trauma or other defensive behavior can be like wagon ruts. That’s the well-worn path the brain defaults to and it can be really hard to lift that heavy wagonload of trauma out of that deep rut. Creating other roads and lightening the load is a job for therapy.
- 7 days
Absolutely humans are deeply affected on conscious and unconscious levels by all kinds of things that are out of their control - both experiences and brain chemistry. Absolutely it is a privilege afforded to only a few to have access to the support and resources needed to become aware of their situation and create deep change for themselves.
It’s also true that if you do a bad thing you did a bad thing. That does NOT mean you are a bad person, it does NOT mean all the things you can’t or couldn’t control are your responsibility, it does NOT mean that you even were fully aware of what you did.
But if you do a bad thing you are responsible for what you did. YOU did it. It is your responsibility to get on a path that will allow you to recognize and change that behavior.
It is nobody’s job to be perfect or beat themselves up for mistakes. It is everyone’s job to work towards being better - to themselves and to the people around them.
Part of that is understanding that you are responsible for your actions. You may genuinely not have been capable of making a better choice at the time - but if you did it = it’s on you to own the mistake.
7 daysMakes me think of the fact that boys that are sexually abused as children are far more likely to grow up to become pedophiles than boys who are not sexually abused as children.
They should still be in prison if they ever act on their pedophilia.
They should still get help for the trauma they have experienced.
I’m willing to bet that almost all of them are fixable as long as they have not offended, but saying that, I also say that it’s practically inexcusable if they did.
- 8 days
I’m glad my childhood raised me to be a pathological people pleaser utterly terrified of anyone’s disapproval. Nobody complaining about these sorts of people
- 8 days
Not yet. But when the day comes when you decide you don’t want to live like this any more, you’ll get a lot of “you’ve changed” and “why are you being so cruel to me” from the people who have grown accustomed to your lack of boundaries.
- 7 days
One day you’ll emerge, fed up with being steamrolled by everyone. There’s a strong assertive raging badass inside of you who won’t take shit from anyone.
Deep down inside, everyone has their Office Space moment just waiting to bloom!
I’m a people. And you can please me by giving me french fries.
On one hand, I am the same way. On the other hand push that further in the same direction to get BPD, and people absolutely complain about people who have it. I guess also my wife complains about my people pleasing sometimes…
- 8 days
Same for age, wealth, status, gender, education, height, weight, hair color, surname and any other inane metric yould care to list. People just need validation and respect, yet don’t recognize it’s a two way street. Not difficult.
- 8 days
Nobody is asking for a free pass, but mental healthcare and just a general recognition of the lack of free will that we all suffer in this deterministic universe does require us to think in terms of consequences that might actually work to make the world a better place.
I’m other words, when has saying, “be better” ever persuaded anyone?
- chunk6235@piefed.socialEnglish7 days
I’m other words, when has saying, “be better” ever persuaded anyone?
When the other person respects your opinion of them.
I’ve had a couple instances in my life where a friend has pulled me aside, explained how I’m being an asshole and told me to be better. Honestly, that has done more to unfuck the person I am than just about anything I can think of. Because I actually care what those close to me think, and don’t want to push them away with my character flaws. Same reason I go to therapy, my therapist just knows how to word it better.
You’re against using the phrase “be better” ? Because it’s overly reductive, lazy and lacks any real tangible call to action? Is that why?
- 7 days
At least don’t fuck over the people that actually stand beside you. Everyone else is fair game.
- 8 days
its not your fault for turning that way. but its your fault for keeping that way.
That’s the intentional irony I envisioned with this post. It’s going how I expected. “Be better”
Explanation, but not excuse.
But then, is there any excuse to be a shitty person. I can only thing of a couple of edge cases.
is there any excuse to be a shitty person
By definition, no. Because if there’s a good justification for it, it’s not that shitty.
E.g. It’s okay to be shitty to Nazis.
- 7 days
The problem is also “shitty person” is kind of subjective. Some people would consider perfectly harmless things to make you a shitty person.
- 7 days
Everyone makes mistakes.
If you had a reasonable childhood count yourself lucky - your mistakes will probably be reasonable. If you suffered from severe trauma/abuse or you have mental health challenges then you are likely to make different kinds of mistakes.
It is everyone’s job to work towards being better. You do something shitty then YOU did it - your childhood didn’t do that, you did. It also might be true that you don’t even recognize how shitty it is because you were taught it was “normal”.
We all are responsible for our actions, but some folks have been surrounded by kindness from birth so kindness is natural and easy. Other folks have to work really hard and make a lot of mistakes to learn that their behavior isn’t ok.
Yes, we are all responsible for our actions.
Equally true = some folks face enormous challenges because of background or brain chemistry, while others have it so easy they don’t get why anyone would struggle.
- 7 days
Fyi you don’t have to have had trauma or abuse to have behavioral issues that are untreated or undiagnosed.
- 7 days
This is me! 🙂 I could make you a long list of things wrong with my parents / things they did wrong, but last I checked humans are going to be human (not perfect). My parents love me and they did the best they could. I had a WAY better childhood than most.
However 40 years of undiagnosed female ADHD didn’t go well. I didn’t feel like I deserved to be struggling so I pretended that I wasn’t. THAT didn’t work.
Eventually got knowledge and support - things are looking up for sure. Just - boy oh boy a lot of energy wasted and failures that could have been avoided if I knew then what I know now.
Grateful I know now, but folks who are struggling and don’t know why have my heart for sure.
- Monument@piefed.worldEnglish7 days
If you read only the black text, the sign is telling people it’s perfectly fine to be victims of their circumstances.
Jokes aside, I reluctantly agree with the sentiment that one or two commenters have expressed that it’s awful privileged to assume it’s within the capacity of those who endured childhood trauma to just “be better”.
At every moment of every day, I carry a wound with me that tells me I’m not good enough, that I’m both physically and mentally in danger, and that everyone and everything I trust will turn on me at a moment’s notice.
It’s a bit like handling a curve on a bike or car. On good days I feel like gentle tug of inertia trying to pull me from the path I’m steering toward. In this metaphor, the curves are the little challenges that are thrown at you socially. I see the edge of the mental road and all the darkness that lies beyond it, but I can handle it with grace and move in the direction I’d like. On bad days - most days, honestly - it’s not so gentle of a pull. I’m sliding right into panic and fear because of the trauma that was built into me. It takes a considerable effort and a lot of energy to not be antisocial, to not indulge in things that protect my wounds.It sucks. And it’s not because I’m not being better, it’s because my starting point is farther back and with fewer resources.
(And time, apparently, as I’m rushing to finish this comment - apologies if that rush comes through with incomplete thoughts.)
I’m sympathetic, I’ve got my own pull telling me I’m terrible and that I don’t deserve love, that if I’m not perfect everyone will abandon me. But I also recognize my responsibility to minimize harm. It wasn’t easy, but I learned how to step away when I’m feeling destructive emotions and I’ve spent years working to heal the wounds (actually just recently started EMDR, but I also learned CBT techniques years ago).
Damage done because of trauma is still damage done.
- Monument@piefed.worldEnglish7 days
I’m glad my intent is coming across, even though I wasn’t very clear with it. I didn’t explicitly say that it’s not acceptable to harm others if you’ve been harmed: it’s not, and I aspire to not do damage to others, even as I sometimes poorly navigate my way through life.
I felt compelled to jump in to give a more human face to how challenging it can be to get from one point to another.I’m in a very similar situation. I’ve struggled for a long time to find a workable therapist. Fragile trust, ADHD, and CPTSD. I’ve done some CBT work, and found a therapist I really trust. I’m now in the beginning phases of EMDR.
Yeah, I’ve also got the fun ADHD + CPTSD combo lol. And yeah I mostly feel the need to talk about the responsibility to minimize harm because of the ways I’ve been hurt by people with BPD.
And yeah, I haven’t gotten to the part of emdr with the lights, but I’m hopeful. I’ve heard amazing things from my friend’s brother.
- 7 days
Hi friend, fellow member of the ACE high score club here. I also find the simplification of these kinds of topics triggering. It’s hard to see people boil down the complexities of CPTSD and other childhood trauma-related conditions in ways that can feel cold or indifferent to the challenges that come from living with them.
The frustrating truth I’ve found is that both things can be true at the same time. We didn’t ask to be born into a situation that changed our developing brains so much, and we didn’t sign up to carry the consequences of the choices our caregivers made on both our bodies and our minds. It’s not our fault this happened, and it’s not fair that we should have to work so hard just to appear “normal” to others and be accepted by them.
Unfortunately, though, the naked truth underneath the pain is that, regardless of how fair it is or isn’t, it’s up to us to address the reality we find ourselves in. We have to do the hard work that got dropped on us if we want to live in a way that isn’t agony all the time. There are people available to help, but no one else can save us. It’s like managing any other diseases that randomly pop up and decide to ruin lives. No one asked for MS, either, but they still have to either address it or do nothing and suffer.
I completed a year long CBT course, and it was really hard at first. It focused on maladaptive behaviors that impact how you treat others. Much of it discussed anger or rage toward others and how to look at your emotions differently so you don’t harm your relationships. I’m very skilled at masking, and my FFFF response is fawning most of the time. Because of this, I got frustrated about thought these lessons didn’t apply to me. I already know how to contain my emotions and play nice with others, I thought, so what is this doing for me?
Over the months, I realized I was saying and doing all those damaging things not to the people around me, but to myself internally all the time. I was taking all my anger, resentment, pain, and feelings of inadequacy on myself. It hit me like a truck. I absolutely did need to learn that material, I just didn’t see where I needed to apply it.
I’m sorry for the long diatribe, but your comment really resonated with me. I could feel your suffering as I was reading. I just wanted to share so you feel supported and understood, and I hope you’re able to make progress and find some peace as you continue to navigate this. If you’d ever like to talk, please don’t hesitate to reach out. I’ll be thinking of you.
- Monument@piefed.worldEnglish7 days
Thank you. I really appreciated your comment, and I agree with you.
I’m in much the same boat. Perhaps not so practiced in wielding the tools or so ingrained in reaching for them, but… trying. It’s reassuring to see and hear from folks who share their stories.Currently in the beginning phases of EMDR therapy, and trying to get to that point where the harms of the past hold less power. The outward manifestation toward others tends to be fairly pro-social, but I’m still struggling with the inner thoughts a lot. Hoping with effort and practice that changes.
- 7 days
This isn’t a fucking shitpost oh my God. This community is where bots come to get Lemmy cred.
I mean, it’s gaining the exact responses I expected it to lmao. I’d say it’s worked well as a low effort piece of cringy bait. I even used the shitty “be better” cliche. Also hilarious to call me a bot given my post/comment history.
- 7 days
No, but it should inspire compassion and patience. Childhood abuse literally changes the structure of their growing brains, you don’t fix that in a day.
- 7 days
Learning changes the structure of growing and non-growing brains. So does trauma.
- OwOarchist@pawb.socialEnglish8 days
Plenty of people out there who had shitty childhoods (some of them much shittier than yours) and grew up to be good people. If they can do it, so can you.
As well a lot of people interact through social media. Let’s be honest, most are out for attention, the amount of reddit style shit posting and responses I’ve seen show they’re well trained.
- 7 days
Explain to me in one hastily written white board that you do not understand childhood trauma.
On the one hand there’s truth to that: your behavior is your responsibility.
On the other: people in this country are seriously uneducated in regards to childhood trauma. I mean good grief. If someone is behaving poorly, there may be deep reasons for that and maybe get them some help.
- 7 days
I think the point is though that after you move out you are in control of your own destiny, and can choose to be a better person than your parents, or just repeat their patterns in your life. I’m not negating trauma.
I.e. had a guy doing Renos at our place, super guy, very kind. As the renos went on we got to chatting. His dad was an abusive alcoholic and he’d left home. I commented how he was doing amazing in spite of his upbringing, and his response was (paraphrased) “I went through stuff, but one day I had to choose not to be my dad, and not let what he did hold me back any longer. You can wallow and drown in the poor me pool, or climb out of it”
- 7 days
It’s all about attitude. You can’t choose your trauma, but you can choose how to see it:
- A normal experience that you “got over” and refuse to allow yourself (and by extension others) to say is or was “that bad,” may even lead to believing that it’s “your turn” to inflict it on anyone who arbitrarily deserves it
- A horrific experience that you never want another child to ever go through
Luckily, I grew up with parents who saw it the #2 way and raised me with love
- 7 days
You cannot always understand or even know your own trauma and in many cases, not all for sure, as you didn’t see it as trauma or completely suppress it and hide it from even yourself
