Perhaps teaching children to never question authority was a bad idea
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- Sunflier@lemmy.worldEnglish3 days
Only 13 million? I think that severely limits his responsibility. Hitler didn’t cause just 13 million deaths. Hitler caused 13 million jews to be killed + 65 million allies + ~44k in the blitzkreig + ~5 million german soldiers + all the other groups targeted in the holocaust (Roma, Gypsies, LGBT, mental patients, etc.) + all the civilians that got caught up in the battlefield (Africa + Europe). In total, Hitler mighta got 100 million.
- Earthwormjim91@lemmy.worldEnglish2 days
It was 6 million Jews, 13 million total in the camps.
There weren’t even 13 million Jews in Europe before wwii lol.
And total deaths, military and civilian, during wwii were 75-85 million. You don’t need to make up numbers. It was already the most human death in history. Making shit up gives the conspiracy nuts ammo.
- 2 days
I believe most estimates converge around 6 million Jews killed in the Holocaust.
- Sunflier@lemmy.worldEnglish1 day
6 million jew, okay. But I didn’t quantify all the other victims of the camps.
- 3 days
Studies on obedience (e.g. replications of Milgrim Experiment) suggest a lot of factors play into people harming and killing others on behalf of an authority. Original was 65% of participants, but it can to up to 90% with men in authoritarian cultures.
My favorite was Australian women having the lowest rate of obedience in the shock experiment, at only 16%, being relatively individualistic and rebellious culturally, but even less obedient then men as women are less likely to conform when it involves harming others. That may have changed in recent years though, as people more comfortable with authoritarianism tend to be more likely to obey.
Typically, people least likely to obey the order have better social intelligence and moral development. Unfortunately, those traits are far and few between lately…
- OwOarchist@pawb.socialEnglish4 days
Typically, people least likely to obey the order have better social intelligence and moral development. Unfortunately, those traits are far and few between lately…
There’s a reason American fascists are trying to demonize the concept of ‘empathy’.
- 3 days
In all of the discussions, Höss is quite matter-of-fact and apathetic, shows some belated interest in the enormity of his crime, but gives the impression that it never would have occurred to him if somebody hadn’t asked him. There is too much apathy to leave any suggestion of remorse and even the prospect of hanging does not unduly stress him. One gets the general impression of a man who is intellectually normal, but with the schizoid apathy, insensitivity and lack of empathy that could hardly be more extreme in a frank psychotic.
From the Wikipedia article Rudolf Höss, about the commandant of Auschwitz.
- 4 days
Absolutely, empathy is easily the enemy of fascism. And the worst thing to them is unity, as we have the most empathy for people we consider in-group, so division only feeds into their agenda.
- 3 days
I picked up a fair amount from an OER textbook that references the studies on its chapter on conformity and obedience, but I bet there is a meta analysis out there with a more comprehensive list. The only issue is later studies on this can’t ethically go beyond a certain amount of fake voltage, as the original studies went a bit too far it’s getting people to think they killed someone.
The textbook in question is available here: https://opentextbc.ca/socialpsychology/
- fosho@lemmy.caEnglish4 days
but even less obedient then men as women are less likely to confirm when it involves harming others
Yo, please do better. I really want to know what you’re saying but I cannot figure it out.
- 3 days
Sorry, my phone corrected conform to confirm. I think most people picked that up by context, but simply typing it several times just now it reverted to confirm. Lol
- 4 days
I have always wondered about this sort of thing. Powerful people are only powerful because people choose to obey them.
- Bubbaonthebeach@lemmy.caEnglish4 days
Not even obey. Many people willingly follow along mostly because they think someone they don’t like will get hurt. Trump isn’t destoying the US on his own. He is being aided by a large portion of the conservative population.
ThenUS basically has a nation wide grooming campaign tonget boys to join the military. You’re not wrong, but the problem is deeper then that.
- 3 days
I mean that’s gross oversimplification, they also use violence of the state to force what they want
- 3 days
Those people don’t need to believe in it though, there’s plenty of people who will do violence for the sake of violence
- 3 days
He was a courier. There are no records and no eyewitness accounts of Hitler ever killing anyone in combat, and he saw very little of it. Hitler himself makes no claims at ever killing an enemy soldier.
He also dodged the draft in Austria-Hungary so that’s fun.
- bedwyr@piefed.caEnglish3 days
Oh thanks for the correction then, even if he did claim it I wouldn’t believe it obviously, I thought he was supposed to have taken a bunch of prisoners at gunpoint but that memory of reading that is from like decades back now so idk.
- 3 days
There was recently news about Hitler probably murdering his niece in 1931. She supposedly killed herself in his apartment but historians found old archives that apparently suggest that’s not what actually happened.
- 3 days
We should give Hitler a posthumous peace prize for killing the leader of the Nazis. Maybe that could inspire a certain fat orange pedophile to follow suit.
- teslekova@lemmy.mlEnglish2 days
I dunno, it had some cool stuff. Like, um… Those grenades on sticks? Pretty great.
- 4 days
Is there any evidence he ever actually shot at anybody? I thought he was like a courier
- 3 days
The only difference between Osama Bin Laden and Brian Thompson, is that Brian got people killed for money.
- 3 days
That and he did structural violence. Our brains are not adapted to react to that emotionally
The point still stands, but did Hitler never kill even one person with his own two hands? Did he not find the time to go down to a camp and kill a few innocents himself? Seems like a thing would be bound to happen.
- 3 days
He was in the military in WW1, so he may have killed a few people.
Some historians seem to think he would’ve mentioned it in Mein Kampf if he had.
Yeah I knew he was in WW1, and may have taken a life there. But I’m wondering about when he was actually in power. Like, did history’s greatest anti-Semite really resist the temptation to do a little dirty work himself? Did he never take an afternoon to go throw the lever on a gas chamber himself? It’s not like he couldn’t have easily arranged such a thing.
- 3 days
“They only followed orders” is the most fucking stupid way to defend the oppressor, yet it works, because people have no balls to stand for themselves in such situations.
In fairness it’s hard to stand your ground when surrounded by murderous fascists.
Where I live, fash put people in cages for decades just for having zines.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2026/jun/24/prairieland-texas-ice-protests-zines
- 3 days
Notably, it didn’t work.
Adolf Eichmann is the guy who made that claim famous, and he was hung almost immediately after his trial.
- 3 days
Notably it worked really well
A few dozen people were executed for German war crimes. These people were not “just following orders”, regardless of what they said. They were creating orders.
Thousands and thousands of people directly responsible for nazi slaughter were safely smuggled out of Germany by the CIA, given new names, and resettled in America, Canada, South America, South Africa, and more.
These people were also creating orders, and yet they were freed from any consequences, including even the economic ones that followed in postwar Germany. They went on to fertilize many of the fascist, racist movements we see taking over today.
Millions more lower level people who only directly murdered others by pulling a trigger, were let off the hook completely. Many got to keep their positions of violent state enforcement. These were the only people “just following orders” and they all escaped prosecution.
- 4 days
This also applies to everyone in tech blindly contributing to the AI bubble and the rise in fascism
He was a war hero from WW1 so it was presumably a bit higher than that, but the vibe is there.
Also both the Holocaust numbers and war deaths are wrong so I’m very curious about where exactly 13 million came from, especially considering one of the things Nazi did was militarize law enforcement even more than Germany already did, which was considerable.
- 4 days
I don’t remember him being a war hero, just a veteran. And the number isn’t for the war, it’s “law enforcement”, so, death camps (including the Jews, Slavs, Roma…) and various raids and mass executions all over the occupied territories.
He received the second and first class Iron Crosses, the first class famously on the recommendation of his Jewish officer.
People compare them pretty frequently to the Bronze Star. I don’t think that’s quite right because the award systems are simply different but by all accounts the first class award was a rarity for his rank.
- 4 days
Hitler got the cyanide capsules from Himmler, but he didn’t trust Himmler, and he also doubted the capsules effectiveness. He really didn’t want to be caught alive, especially after hearing the relatively mild treatment Mussolini got… so he had his physician test it first on Blondi.
- 4 days
IIRC, in the movie Downfall, some of his men makes it bite down on a cyanide capsule.
4 daysI still need to watch that movie. Been seeing the memes of his rant about Steiner for 22 years. Few things bring me more joy than watching a very well acted Hitler Mental Breakdown.
- Greymattertripp@lemmus.orgEnglish4 days
Pretty safe to assume he went somewhere because he wasn’t in that hole. Dental records confirmed that.
- 4 days
You know it’s a bad idea when it’s the military strategy to build obedient soldiers
