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- 5 days
What I dislike is the lumping of all datacenters into one hated bucket. I suspect people don’t realize that, for example, the fediverse… exists in datacenters. Take away datacenters and the entire internet goes away.
I think what people don’t want is a bunch of shitty datacenters (meaning using shitty power sources, for example) that are being built for AI or massive government/private data over-reach.
You WANT some datacenters…
This is like being against… prepared food. Sure, cooking from scratch is better, but outlaw all prepared foods and now you will be exhausted cooking every single day. We depend on some prepared foods. What we want is less added sugar, more healthy prepared foods, safer food, at a lower cost. We want improvements, not a complete ban.
Same with datacenters.
- Echo Dot@feddit.ukEnglish5 days
I think the main reason is that people didn’t notice the old data centers. There is a data centre in my town about a two minute walk from where I live, I lived here for 3 years before noticing it. It’s just a non-descript massive gray building and somehow it’s kind of invisible. I could probably ask people who’ve lived here their entire lives if they knew about the data centre, and I suspect that most of them would swear up and down that there isn’t one. It doesn’t make noise, it doesn’t generate huge amounts of traffic, it doesn’t use that much water up if any, and it has its own electrical supply. I essentially live right on top of it, yet it has basically no effect on my life. According to Google Street view it was built some time between 2015 and 2017, so it’s not an AI data centre.
These new AI ones require orders of magnitude more power, and cooling. They have a much larger impact on the local environment.
- Phoenixz@lemmy.caEnglish4 days
There is also the difference that the fediverse runs on a few potato servers. You could barely fill a few racks with the servers that do the fediverse
This in contrast with AI that requires tonnes of datacenters all over the world
- yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish4 days
That poor rural communities should subsidize data centers’ water and electrical consumption so that random websites can be cheaper to maintain is a weird argument but okay.
Data centers are currently unregulated, inefficient, ecologically destructive resource pits parasitical on poor communities. That’s the problem. A simple solution would be to sell them water and electricity at 1000x the cost per gallon of a regular household. If that doesn’t encourage innovation, just require data centers to purify wastewater and generate their own clean energy! Problem solved.
4 daysThere is unfortunately a lot of propaganda on this subject, and it’s quite aggravating how much of the public has just bought into these ideas. A data center is no less “ecologically destructive” than any other large building project, like a meat processing plant or chemical plant, except they don’t even have to worry about food safety or chemical pollution. The only novel things about a data center are:
- Servers need a lot of electricity
- Servers need cooling
- Data centers can generate noise pollution
Does that need some level of mitigation? Of course. But, the current attitude makes people believe that they are on the level of some nuclear waste processing facility.
purify wastewater and generate their own clean energy
These are jobs for other facilities. A data center, just like 99.999% of the other buildings, are just going to buy whatever electricity is already on the grid.
If you want clean energy, promote more alternatives on the grid. Electricity is only as clean as whatever your local power plant provides.
- yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish4 days
data centers are like a meat processing plants
…which cause ecological devastation at an unimaginable scale and give poor communities cancer. This comparison is apt.
purify wastewater and generate their own clean energy
These are jobs for other facilities.
Not anymore. Townships cannot be made responsible for the pet projects of billionaires, nor is it their job to subsidize the internet. Get your own water and clean energy or fuck off.
I want to emphasize that this is a massive compromise since my first choice is [redacted].
- Kairos@lemmy.todayEnglish5 days
The U.S. has over 3000 datacenters, which is 10x 2nd place (Germany). Most are very small nondescript buildings near the airport.
- CosmoNova@lemmy.worldEnglish5 days
With how fast big tech moves to break things there‘s no time for nuance. I‘m not being sarcastic or anything. I‘m serious. We genuinely don‘t need all that computing power. It makes live only harder instead of improving it at this point because it‘s mostly used to replace us in the job market and spy on us in our free time. So yeah, fight every single data center. Fuck nuance.
Fuck nuance.
This attitude is fucking toxic. How do you think we got here? Black & white absolutism. Dumbass right-wing assholes who listen to propaganda garbage and think a 2-minute uncritical explanation of a subject is gospel, because fuck nuance, right?
These are the same dipshits who hate transpeople because “it wasn’t around 30 years ago, so it must be wrong”, and “it didn’t happen to me, so these people are just crazy”, and other fucked-up explanations. Because fuck nuance, right?
Don’t stoop to that level. We’re smart than that.
- CosmoNova@lemmy.worldEnglish16 hours
You took me completely out of context and ignored my core argument just to get hung up on a single word. So much for
We‘re [smarter] than that.
This is profoundly… meaningless?
“Data centres bad”… does it factor in anything beyond popular perception? Sounds like it’s just “tell me your ‘feelings’ about…” Fuck off.
- 5 days
Do you understand the point of polls? They give hard data points so instead of people saying “I hear X” and making guesses, this is actual data on what people feel and think.
I think what you mean is that these results don’t surprise you. That’s fine. It’s still valuable data. Maybe just not to you.
- chunes@lemmy.worldEnglish4 days
Yep, it’s like asking toddlers their opinion on biomolecular chemistry. Just totally meaningless.
- IllNess@infosec.pubEnglish5 days
Politicians do things. They allow them because they work for the corporations.
- CosmoNova@lemmy.worldEnglish5 days
We do using the 4 boxes of liberty.
Soap box: Freedom of speech. It has already been successful to stop many data centers from being constructed. Make your voice heard at town meetings and social media. If that doesn‘t work because they suppress communication we move on to the next box.
Ballot box: Vote for change. Politicians don‘t listen? Vote other representatives who do. If that didn‘t work because all candidates are corrupt pigs we try the next box.
Jury box: Sue them. There has been success on this level too. Many data centers don‘t even wait for the permit. There‘s a lot of wrenches that you can throw between their gears on a legal level. Besides, a jury can even decide in favor of the town folks on no legal basis at all. Just because they think it makes more sense to stop the data center. But sometimes even that doesn‘t work because corporations already lobbied to bend the laws in advance. Which leaves us with the last option.
Cartridge box: Armed resistance is the last line of defense. This is true for fighting the techno fascist state as it is to fight any enemy of democracy and freedom. It has seen some success to push back against Flock, for example.
So yeah, I would argue a lot is being done already.
