there seems to be a real emotional response by many people…
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2 daysFood is a very emotional topic and some people with no manners can’t seem to be able to mind their own business. No one has the right to police someone else’s food thank you very much.
So I just keep to myself, eat whatever the hell I want that makes me feel good.
That’s fair enough. I like feeling healthy, and so unfortunately now I’m precluded from eating plant matter. I wish it could be any other way, since I love baking, but such is life.
I mean…“Look at me, I’m a human. I enslave millions (billions?) of animals for the express purpose of slaughter and give them shitty lives just because. Then, I buy their meat from a store, not having to face death myself. Teehee why do people get so triggered?”
I’m an omnivore, so it’s not like I don’t get it. But even from my viewpoint meat eaters are insufferable about their meat eating. Some make it their whole personality.
So yeah, that and carnivores pushing around vegetarians and vegans for so long probably didn’t help. “Ew, rabbit food” and whatnot. Even you’re doing it now, what with choosing to use the word “trigger” like it doesn’t already have a meaning.
Just be better. No one cares if you eat meat.
- psud@aussie.zoneEnglish3 days
One animal per person per year for cattle. Compared to the number of field animals killed by harvesting machines for people who eat wheat or drink beer. And I’d prefer to eat retired dairy cattle if they were available, and those have a good life, as the slightest problem stops them giving milk
No one cares if you eat meat
How can you have visited this community and think that? We post a science paper saying it’s healthy to eat meat and it will attract more down votes than this community ever sees in up votes
There are comments above yours in this thread telling us we’re as bad as cannibals, or cause global warming
I notice that you “who doesn’t care what we eat” down voted this post, along with five others who presumably don’t have a problem with us
- glimse@lemmy.worldEnglish1 day
And I’d prefer to eat retired dairy cattle if they were available, and those have a good life, as the slightest problem stops them giving milk
Uh, might want to do a little research before you make a claim like that. They definitely don’t live “good” lives.
- psud@aussie.zoneEnglish1 day
They really do. They have sunlight, grass, and no predators. The grass is the sort they like, in modern farms they get milked as soon as they want
Cattle don’t have complex needs, they’re not migratory like buffalo.
- psud@aussie.zoneEnglish24 hours
Not at all, they work like they always have a child. Same thing worked for human wet nurses before baby formula was invented
- glimse@lemmy.worldEnglish13 hours
…how do you think they get them to act that way?
You’re acting like every cow is on a family farm but the majority of milk comes from mass producers.
- jet@hackertalks.comEnglish3 days
Thank you for sharing.
The fact you express your omnivore diet in terms of ‘slavery’, ‘shitty lives’ demonstrates you have lots of guilt associated with your omnivore lifestyle. I see a few options for you - go full plant based, or purchases meat that doesn’t have a bad life (i.e. meat your local regenerative farmer)
carnivores pushing around vegetarians and vegans
Carnivore isn’t about other people, its a eating pattern, which is a powerful tool in fixing metabolic health. It’s really not about what other people eat. Framing everything in a combative either or probably is also adding to the guilt you carry.
Just be better.
That is why we are here, to be better together. Thank you for joining us.
Oh look, more bad faith arguments. Was that your alt I was arguing with earlier? Edit: Hahaha it IS his alt! Hahahahahahaha
I feel guilty sure, but who’re you to tell me what to do? Why don’t you eat something other than meat? See how that works? Oh and I’d be first in line for lab grown meat, so wrong again.
You just use what you believe are ‘smart’ words to disguise your illogic.
Also I specifically said no one cares if you eat meat. That includes me. No need to segue randomly to “metabolic health” (you don’t know what metabolism means huh) because you don’t have any counter arguments.
Man, you’re really dumb. You used the word “trigger” then got* big mad that someone matched that energy.
Pathetic. Pathetic and really stupid. You’re probably feeling guilty about being a dumb piece of shit. Should go address that.
- jet@hackertalks.comEnglish3 days
I feel guilty sure, but who’re you to tell me what to do?
We are just chatting, living with guilt is troublesome, i would like to see you have a healthier relationship with yourself.
Why don’t you eat something other than meat?
It’s not healthy for me, i react poorly to plant based foods, but that doesn’t mean other people can’t enjoy them.
See how that works?
Yup! It’s a wonderful way to have a conversation!
Oh and I’d be first in line for lab grown meat, so wrong again.
It’s already available for sale in singapore, but its 97% plant based 3% “lab meat”, but it’s a start.
You just use what you believe are ‘smart’ words to disguise your illogic.
Sure please show me my illogic and i’ll evaluate it to inform my future logic.
Also I specifically said no one care if you eat meat. That includes me.
I feel guilty sure
Sounds like you do care.
you don’t know what metabolism means
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/metabolism
The dynamic energy storage and utilization throughout the human body. Including all energetic substrates, cell health (especially mitochondrial health), oxidation… .basically anything that uses ATP, which is pretty much everything in the body.
you’re really dumb
Great, please educate me (with sources), I am happy to get better.
You used the word “trigger” then get big mad that someone matched that energy.
You are clearly triggered here, your guilt, the projection of biases and motivations i haven’t demonstrated. That is ok, it’s what i asked for in the post after all. I’m glad you are explaining things to me now
Pathetic. Pathetic and really stupid. You’re probably feeling guilty about being a dumb piece of shit. Should go address that.
Lots of angry energy, are you doing ok?
Lmao look at this guy. Sources huh? If you’re so smart, why are you asking such a dumb fucking question here?
I’m not gonna address your other angry bullshit. Just be mad, you’re really bad at hiding it.
Hey man, just like, give me some sources maaaaan proceeds to give no fucking sources of his own this entire time
Edit: oh also, you said “metabolic health”, which if you knew the definition of the word, you’d have known was nonsense.
How can someone be this dumb? Holy shit man
The only person demonstrably angry here is you. Emotion-filled diatribes have no place in this community, I’m afraid.
- jet@hackertalks.comEnglish3 days
that is enough of that, thank you for demonstrating what triggered behavior is - but clearly this community isn’t a good match for you.
You’re very quick to assume, and to impose your morality on others. We could all be better.
I’m not gonna deny that I can be better, but if what you got out of what I said was soley ‘assumptions’, then are you not imposing your misinterpretation over the truth?
You can play word games, but in the end, most of what I’ve stated are facts or close to them. Also, you stated ‘assumptions’ but gave no examples?
So uh, what’s your deal?
I was stating an observation. Here’s another: you’re also very defensive. Perhaps some introspection is in order?
Lmao you’re arguing in bad faith and want me to be introspective? Do you know what that word means?
Lmao turns out it’s just a troll
Why, so you can spread more bullshit unimpeded? No, I’ll continue to call you out thanks.
And no, pretty clearly you’re the only troll here. Go ahead and block me though, if you’d like!
Lmao talking about assumptions and assumes it’s ‘best’ I block him. Man you’re stupid.
- silly_goose@lemmy.todayEnglish3 days
I assume it’s similar to how a carnivore might get triggered by serial killers or cannibals.
A cannibal or mass murderer might think it’s useless or delusional to “leak your empathy” beyond yourself or your own family.
You probably extend your empathy to most humans. A lot of people extend it to animals to different degrees and we perceive the other groups as a threat.
- psud@aussie.zoneEnglish3 days
I would rather animals die to feed me than for me be as unhealthy as I was when I ate plants.
- silly_goose@lemmy.todayEnglish3 days
If you could be just as healthy eating plants would you be plant based instead?
That’s unfortunately not a useful thought experiment; you understand that from where we’re coming from it’s the same as saying “if you could be just as healthy ingesting poisons would you ingest poisons?”
Plants all contain toxins, and there isn’t any requirement for them in our diet, so why even think about it? There is no way that we can be as healthy eating plant matter.
- glimse@lemmy.worldEnglish1 day
Define toxin. That’s a term I see get thrown around a LOT by “health influencers”
A plant toxin is a poison made by a plant. They’re generally defense chemicals that plants make to protect themselves. I think that much is obvious, so you’re perhaps trying to get at “the dose makes the poison.” Toxicity depends on dose, but again, since there are no essential nutrients that you can only get from plants, why eat them at all considering that they all contain various doses of these chemicals that we don’t fully understand? Who defines what the safe dose of each alkaloid or terpene is, and on what basis? What about long term chronic exposure?
For your reference here is a list of plant toxins. The list is not complete, and it contains both false positives and false negatives, since we learn more about these chemicals every day. https://www.agroscope.admin.ch/en/toxic-plants-phytotoxin-tppt-database
Also as a side note, I’d pay “health influencers” no heed if I were you.
- glimse@lemmy.worldEnglish14 hours
I’m more getting at that toxins are a scary sounding word pseudoscientists use incorrectly to get you into homeopathy. Like saying something is “full of chemicals” as if it was a defacto bad thing. Toxin doesn’t mean “bad to humans”
We’ve been eating plants for as long as we’ve been eating meat so we’ve got the same experience and understanding. 40,000 years of trial and error and evolution, I’m just not worried about “toxins” as a whole.
And I don’t pay attention to health influencers. I was comparing your comment to something a health influencer would say.
It’s a good thing zero-carb isn’t homeopathy, then. If said thing is perhaps a container for chemicals, then it being full of chemicals would be a good thing, since it would be fulfilling its function. I’m not sure what you’re getting at.
“Toxin” does in fact mean “bad to humans,” by definition. And no, we haven’t, agriculture is only about 10,000 years old. You are of course free to ingest as many toxins as you feel comfortable with, that’s entirely your decision.
Btw, I’d like to gently remind you of Rules 1, 2, and 4 in this community. Consider this a light warning.
- silly_goose@lemmy.todayEnglish23 hours
Interestingly, it’s not just the dose that makes the poison, the conditions in which you consume it too.
Many poisons even ionizing radiation can make your cells stronger and live longer through hormesis.
So you have to demonstrate that plant based foods after they are processed by cooking or fermenting are harmful to humans due to these toxins.
- psud@aussie.zoneEnglish18 hours
It is the dose. Ionising radiation breaks DNA that won’t make your cells stronger, it’ll make them dead.
Boiling, baking, fermenting can detoxify some poisons from some plants, but we appear to be able to survive for 120 years, so what’s limiting that by 40 years since we invented agriculture?
Have you seen the video about the carnivore since teenage woman running a cattle farm? She moves and looks like a healthy person in her 40s, but she was 82 when the video was made. I’ll edit this with a link when I find the video
Not the one I was thinking of but https://youtu.be/kxMLto084Pc Not this one either https://youtu.be/mnWdsEzx8F0 but probably the same person
@silly_goose@lemmy.today updated with some links. I couldn’t find the exact one I was looking for
Still, why eat plants? Cooking and fermenting may neutralize some amount of some of these toxins (which, and by how much?), but how much exactly is safe?
I’m not against taking plants for medicinal effects if necessary, but otherwise I think I’ll leave my cells alone since I don’t know if any intervention I can do will result in a quantifiable improvement over baseline. And why find out? We can just avoid it all.
Personally, I’d prefer demonstration that any processed foods are safe before they are sold for public consumption. For some unfathomable reason, our society doesn’t require this.
- psud@aussie.zoneEnglish2 days
Maybe. I don’t see my plant tolerant friends willing to try just meat. It takes a lot to make you try an unusual diet
- silly_goose@lemmy.todayEnglish2 days
fair enough. There are many still who switched diets both ways.
I asked because you sounded like you would like to be plant based for moral reasons but your body doesn’t tolerate it.
- psud@aussie.zoneEnglish1 day
I wouldn’t go plant based for environmental reasons - I feel that it is a lie to distract us from industry in general which is responsible
The world has always been full of animals and didn’t suffer global warming until we started burning fossil fuels
- jet@hackertalks.comEnglish3 days
Sure, the people who are trying to optimize their health would use any tool to optimize their health if you demonstrate its optimal.
- silly_goose@lemmy.todayEnglish2 days
if you demonstrate its optimal
What kind of demonstration would convince you of that?
- psud@aussie.zoneEnglish23 hours
It was the demonstration of this diet in the book The Fat of the Land that the diet was safe long term that convinced me
And wow were the health improvements good when I changed to this
- jet@hackertalks.comEnglish2 days
I would want to see interventions, hard outcomes, real data without confounders, strong signal far greater then low hazard ratio epidemiology.
i.e. i want to see this - https://doi.org/10.1016/C2019-0-03604-7
- psud@aussie.zoneEnglish3 days
You sound like the half a percent of people who eat only meat, who don’t eat more meat than the average omnivore, but do eat the fat are responsible for global warming
We tend to be more careful of the meat we buy than average too, avoiding feed lot animals and those feed grains as they have the wrong balance of fats
Have you looked at how the fertilisers for plants are made? They aren’t green. They aren’t carbon neutral like beef is.
I’m fortunate enough to be able to buy from a local farmer that farms for his family and as a hobby, he’s some executive. I know he treats his animals well and I know he feeds them the good shit. I say fortunate though, because it’s not cheap. Not everyone has that luxury.
- jet@hackertalks.comEnglish3 days
That is the prevailing opinion, yet opinions do differ - https://discuss.online/post/47173234
