2 monthsAnyone who thinks modern day russia has anything to do with socialism is a dipshit. But the majority of tankies online aren’t even in that camp. Most of them just don’t like the west. That’s all. There is no great philosophy behind their inhumanity. They hate the west and by that they love russia and china.
Driven by hate it’s not wonder they read so similar to Nazis.
Oh and they LOOOOOOOOOOOVE whataboutism.
- kkj@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish2 months
They’ve correctly realized that the US is the greatest force for evil in the world today, then incorrectly extrapolated that to mean that anyone who opposes the US must be good. Bad people often hate each other. Hitler, who killed between 11 and 17 million civilians depending on your definition, abhorred Churchill, who killed a couple million civilians in the Bengal famine.
- 2 months
I don’t think you’ve read what they said. They were agreeing with you, and elaborating.
- kkj@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish2 months
Ran into it? I was explaining their reasoning. Or are you taking the same stance in the opposite direction, that because Russia is bad the US must be good? I don’t think I could have been more clear in my analogy.
- 2 months
Let him have the Sudetenland, he will stop after it, it was his territory 100 years ago anyway…
- 2 months
The only real compromise is to free the Russians from their oppressive regime and bring everyone supporting it to justice.
- ivan@piefed.socialEnglish2 months
“Compromise” stance is just a mask to look less bloodthirsty to outsiders. Tankies get even worse when dropping that mask.
Remember Operation Spiderweb? Russia retaliated by yet another attack on residential buildings and top comments for these news in .ml were “yeah, that’s what they get for their terroristic attacks on Russia”.
- 2 months
Haven’t Ukrainian socialists been burned alive in Odessa’s union building? So leftists could care less for either side.
- DrakeAlbrecht@lemmy.worldEnglish2 months
While at least one of the fires seems to have been started by those outside the building, most seem to have been caused accidentally from inside.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Odesa_clashes
TL;DR: Your propaganda is bad and you should feel bad.
- 2 months
There were some far-right Russian nationalists that colluded with police and shot pro-Ukraine marchers in 2014, before barricading themselves in the Union House building, and started shooting and throwing Molotovs at protestors, and lit themselves on fire. Are you thinking of those proto-Ztards?
- ivan@piefed.socialEnglish2 months
To be fair, diehard USSR fans were usually among most active separatists, of course self-proclaimed socialists. It’s just that Russian idea of socialism is rather “ice cream was tasty, and kielbasa costed 3 kopecks” nostalgia and not the cooperative workplace ownership or whatever (because USSR was never actually socialist).
- 2 months
I’m not taking the tankie position but how does Ukraine/Europe/NATO etc. expect to end this war? Do they really think Ukraine will retake the Donbas and Crimea? To me the compromise seems pragmatic and has nothing to do with supporting Russia.
EDIT: Ok just to be clear. There are three positions.
- Fight Russia and push them out of the Donbas. This would involve committing Western troops and declaring war on a nuclear power.
- Negotiate and let Putin take some territory. Given the war crimes and fascism shown by Russia, this would be catastrophic for the people who live there, but the daily slaughter would stop.
- Give enough aid to Ukraine that the fighting continues indefinitely but neither side wins. This is the current situation. Between 1 and 2 million casualties so far.
I’m sorry that none of these are great options but dismissing #2 comes off as incredibly callous and naive.
- 2 months
Your grandparent if it was genetic:
“I wouldn’t take the German position, but how does England/France/Poland expect to end this war? Do they really think France will retake the Elsass and Lotharingia? To me, compromise seems pragmatic and has nothing to do with supporting Germany”
They win the same way any free people has ever resisted domination by tyrants. By fighting.
- 2 months
I find the comparisons between Putin’s Russia and Hitler’s Germany to be profoundly idiotic. If I need to lay out why then there’s no point even trying to argue because there’s a basic lack of understanding that needs to be overcome.
- 2 months
You realize saying “I’m right and you’re wrong, and if you don’t know why I’m not going to tell you,” comes across as extremely childish, right?
Are you making the argument that Russia isn’t engaging in ethnic cleansing? Or that they don’t have the same alliances as Germany did? What precisely are you separating between the 2 actions taken by powerful aggressors?
EDIT: Ok just to be clear. There are three positions.
There’s other options you’re ignoring:
.4: The Russian economy collapses due to the combination of sanctions, “kinetic sanctions” reducing foreign income, and the mono-focus on war-goods delivery causing large segments of the economy to be unable to produce or produce cost efficiently
.5: The various oligopolists and other power bases decide they’ve had enough of Putin bleeding them and want the good times back, Putain gets Gadaffi’ed
.6: Internal uprisings of some of the downtrodden colonies - prob not Chechnya again, but Far East, and Circassia etc, particularly given a lot of maimed and mentally impacted soldiers returning there
Now I don’t think the last one is very likely for a bunch of reasons, but the point is your options are way too narrow.
- 2 months
These all come off as wishful thinking and reminiscent of 2023 punditry. The Russian economy is fine because it’s a petrostate supported by BRICS. Even if we entertain them the time horizon is totally undefined. So we wait around while another million people die?
- kkj@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish2 months
They tried option 2 in 2014. It got them invaded again. They’ve decided to try something different now, since they know option 2 doesn’t work.
- 2 months
They didn’t concede Crimea. They failed to get a security guarantee from NATO or the EU and now that would involve declaring war, so we are instead content to watch hundreds of thousands of them die. You need peace before you can get a security guarantee, and the only way to get peace is through some negotiation. Barring the aforementioned spontaneous collapse of Russia.
- kkj@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish2 months
You need peace before you can get a security guarantee,
Which they had in 2015 and couldn’t get one
and the only way to get peace is through some negotiation.
Which they did in 2014 and still got invaded in 2022
- 2 months
Yes they get a security guarantee this time, obviously. It’s like arguing with an LLM
- 2 months
It’s like arguing with an LLM
Or perhaps it is because your position is untenable?
