Not an ad, I’m not involved with Bento (or Stirling, for that matter). I’ve been unhappy with Stirling for a while (why do documents need to be uploaded to the server? That makes it really hard to safely host publicly. Why is it so slow? Plus, too many things are put behind a fucking paywall).

Learned about Bento this morning, tried it out, really liked it, spent an hour today packaging it for nixpkgs. It doesn’t quite have feature parity with Stirling yet, but at least for me, everything I need is there, it’s fast, and it keeps processing in the browser. Like, not even joking: the output of the build process/nixpkg are just a couple of static HTML files and some WASM. No server-side components at all. Really refreshing to see.

If you’ve been selfhosting conduit or conduwuit, you probabl are aware that the conduwuit project was discontinued a couple months back.

I’ve been holding out on updating my matrix homeserver until it becomes clear which fork(s) will survive long term.

I feel like I can’t put off updating for much longer now, plus the tuwunel nixpkg and -module were merged yesterday, so now the two most promising forks are both options for me.

Still, I’m unsure what route to take. Here’s my thoughts:

• not going through another round of this in a couple of months from now would be great, so stability and long-term maintenance promises would be great
• I assume incompatibility between the forks, if not now then very soon; this is a “pick an option, then stick with it and pray” situation
• tuwunel apparently has a full-time paid dev working on it now, which is great; at the same time, that means features will follow the priorities of the (as of now unknown) sponsor of the project
• it is, however, the officially endorsed successor
• it also seems like few other people are actively involved, putting in question development practices, reviews, and what happens should the lead dev throw in the towel
• lastly, while there’s been a lot of apparently rapid progress (with releases 1.0.0, 1.1.0, and 1.2.0 at quite a fast pace), the repo itself seems… empty? Few issues, few PRs, commentlessly-deleted issues
• on the other hand, continuwuity seems more active by commit/contributors count, but is seemingly 100% volunteer work
• they do seem to backport tuwunel changes and features, which is great!
• they are not officially endorsed

In short: I fucking hate community drama. What fork did you go with? Is there anything else to consider? I just want an up-to-date matrix homeserver, and not to have to tell my users “sorry, starting from scratch because we picked the wrong fork…”

Update: there’s been some back and forth on the nixpkgs PR, esp. one user who posted a lot of receipts here:

@scvalex @queeek180 @Askhalion you wanted links, here’s some links :)

claim legitimacy over or de legitimise other projects:

https://matrix.to/#/#ping:maunium.net/$V9aN1Wn0pId-JWbxH1WV5I8PAVMajooX7WMFKmDyh6E
https://matrix.to/#/#ping:maunium.net/$IsfOfe8anRYqbRAwj7OdlX_hS-kBbHUJTVhQW-32Etk
https://matrix.to/#/#ping:maunium.net/$-Bswk96jj3ns8xpSISKH0Y24pXZ2Xcd6Rwl8mRZQIaM (ironic)
https://matrix.to/#/#meowlnir:maunium.net/$zOmf7-NIHfQ_f_Ku9Q794GeKyu8n9v2MAvPtYjlGJIE (ironic that he asked https://matrix.to/#/#meowlnir:maunium.net/$nE57Bi_DmvodZJe7JDPS7NxUBlxeDLUBhYIWNzgNk0g despite having cherrypicked a bunch of fixes from continuwuity already)
https://matrix.to/#/#tuwunel:grin.hu/$svIUeuWfm2VWuHGSUMeT5VWWcZclraKcmUaDK3NiYEM (“June and I dealt with another “continuwuity” called “grapevine” last year”)

threats against the project:

https://matrix.to/#/#ping:maunium.net/$o27P102ebbFa9U80e-FK-DxGTupy8IJ3TSWFYJm6hIs
https://matrix.to/#/#ping:maunium.net/$priRlTsBuH2YfTo_pb04xHUJpTeU2DKXdJ7tAVrR5w4

personal threats:

https://matrix.to/#/#ping:maunium.net/$5YefXN_uVR5WiGfj32j3Po9Q1JMKuTTfxve_8IHp1J8
https://matrix.to/#/#ping:maunium.net/$L-dXYMXucfJiLkyc5dvv4t7pQqUKMwnLEd9zzLjZlu0

attempting to get security details released early (knowing only he and three other servers have finished implementing):

https://matrix.to/#%2F!NasysSDfxKxZBzJJoE%3Amatrix.org%2F%24_d2wJk45JtwblMHRVBdfeEV1cAU5flPuRebTAvfOr-s%3Fvia=nexy7574.co.uk&via=matrix.org&via=element.io
https://matrix.to/#/#tuwunel:grin.hu/$mgi2dDGnL-L9Jqjm_YZPhu4NoAx8q3OMF9KIfRiGwFs

other trivia:

Jason getting his server ACL’ed from all foundation rooms:
https://matrix.to/#/!WuBtumawCeOGEieRrp:matrix.org/$u8YRBq_s-OrOpl4IGt15iUHPBKubKa4A_n-u_WbgqAU` - zemos.net ban
https://matrix.to/#/!WuBtumawCeOGEieRrp:matrix.org/$l8pKC-mR0tjLFnbnmi_8xSXbHGA3vgew-QTRWAk-kCs - wildcard ban on his domain

if any of these events get redacted, feel free to reach out and I will provide the original events - unredacted. just as another layer of certainty, when i provide the events, you can verify the server signing keys yourself, fairly trivially, as well as calculate the event ID (which is a hash). fetching the event from your $CONDUWUIT_DESCENDANT homeserver is as simple as running @conduit debug get-pdu $id in your admin room, as well as checking validity with @conduit debug verify-json or @conduit debug verify-pdu.

UPDATE: i’ve just been informed json signing is based on the redacted event, not the full input.

Honestly, that first link is all the info I needed. Keep reading, <100 messages and it becomes clear that I do not want to put the continuation of my homeserver into Jasons/tuwunels hands. Going to migrate to continuwuity later today.