13 hours
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Here’s the thing everyone seems to be forgetting. Once a motorized vehicle leaves the ground under powered flight it is no longer under DOT’s domain it is now under FAA’s domain. FAA licenses are way harder to get and way easier to lose. They also require annual tests to keep. This is why flying cars are a non starter, because to pilot them you need a general aviation license.
There are exceptions but it’s always in the ultralight or experimental categories. A release of this car will fit neither of those categories.
- 4 hours
Yeah this car will never be for sale. There will be the $50,000 version which has none of the compressed air loaded into it, and a tuned up version with some boost for the 0-60. The flying car they showed yesterday was the only one that will ever do that, because it was a literal stunt for the shareholders.
- 5 hours
To be fair, with teslas track record we’d be lucky if a production “flying” car like this could achieve more air time than my Subaru when I go ditch banging 😂
- 7 hours
Even funnier, you’re generally not allowed to land on roads so once you take off you have a problem with that flying car. Debris flying around will also be fun.
- 7 hours
I bought a used 2023 Hyundai Ioniq 5 for $25k. 30k miles. I know its still not cheap, but the ask the batteries have a 100k+ warranty.
77kW 220-280 miles at 100% (though I rarely go beyond 90% for battery life). 0-60 in 4.5 seconds, all wheel drive, CCS charger with NACS adapters available. Tesla chargers max at 96kW just fyi, idk why. But a lot of quick chargers work better, there’s 2 65xkW, 4x180kW near me. There’s a 4x375kW and a 4x400kW on a regular distance trip I take. Those are stupid fast charging.
A standard 120v is 1.4kW max, and it works out to about 10%/11hrs. A 240v is much better (i can’t remember maybe its like 10kW) charges fully in about 8 hours.
Kia and Hyundai are awesome EVs. I’ve heard good things about Subaru’s. The Chevy Bolt I’ve heard less good about. Toyota’s EVs are disappointing. Avoid Polestar - they aren’t allowed to sell in the US anymore anyway, but the car has a fancy interior and is fun to drive until the AC stops working. And it’s got weird software license gates for hardware it has.
Also don’t find reasons to funnel money to Musk.
- 6 hours
Subaru and Toyota’s EVs are the same cars with mild restyles, both should be similar mechanically and reliability wise. The Uncharted is definitely the nicest of the bunch in my mind, though.
- 6 hours
For 240V most people use a dryer outlet which is 30 amps. 30A x 240V = 7.2kW before resistance and conversion losses, etc. Use a 50 amp circuit and outlet and you can achieve 12kW with the same stipulations.
- 6 hours
240V can vary depending on the amperage and what the individual charger can handle. Power = Voltage x Current. I ran a 60A line, but for continuous loads you can only do 80%, so I get 240V x 48A which is about 11.5kW. There are always losses, so 10ish is a fair guess for real world time expectations.
As a Bolt EUV owner, I’m very envious of your charge speeds on the road, even though I wouldn’t make much use of it.
- TheRealKuni@piefed.socialEnglish7 hours
Oh I like this. The Swastikar Deplorean is joined by the Swastikar Klanborghini.
- FishFace@piefed.socialEnglish9 hours
Batteries are expensive. Tesla had the best value EV for a long time until alternatives with real buttons and no nazis came along so this is a weird one.
- 8 hours
This is always what I hear, but the average American drives less than 40 miles a day. I don’t get why no one makes an EV with a small battery and ~100 mile range? It would meet the daily needs of most Americans and have like 70% less battery
- 5 hours
The Renault Twingo has a WLTP range of 263 km. But that is what you want in order to have around 130 -170 km real highway range (cold/mild weather). Plenty such cars exist but very few of them are sold in the US. So these cars would not need to be created, they just needed to be sold in the US. Price point around 20k USD before tax should be realistic for these.
- 8 hours
Because of that cowboy delusion of being able to just ride (drive) off into the sunset is still a part of the cultural identity. You are correct, that consumer wise, this would be a very efficent and ideal product for commuters. The range would get you from Boston to Heartford, or Chicago to Milwaukee, to and from any suburb to the nearest major airport, but you could not just… GO. (Far off with John Denver playing on the radio)
- 5 hours
Or, ya know, not everyone lives on the east coast in the most densely populated area of the country? How about the 50% of the country where its an hour drive between cities? I live in Oregon and am constantly driving more than 100 miles out of town to have fun with friends. Day trips are a common thing in the US, and I’m not buying a separate car just to drive to Medford from Weed.
Even when I lived in Portland or Seattle, I still drove like 2 hours out a few times a month to hang with friends or visit family. The US is huge dude, the whole country of Ireland is like the size of Oregon. When visiting family in Kansas, Colorado, Texas, or just most of the country, the distances get way WAY bigger for just daily living.
- 5 hours
This comes up a lot, and as someone living in the US I genuinely can’t understand how anyone would cap themselves to a 100 mile range. I’ve been all over the country, from big cities like LA and Seattle to rural places in Montana, Texas, and Florida. No matter where I’ve been, I’ve always needed a car that could drive at least 200 miles for a day trip.
Currently in southern Oregon. If I want to go with some friends into the nearest city to do fun stuff or go to the mall, its an hour and 45 minute drive at 55 miles and hour. If I had an EV with a range of 100 miles, I’d have like 10 miles of charge once I got into town? That is not enough, and then I’d have to wait for it to charge before going home. That just wouldn’t work.
When I lived in Seattle, a pretty big city, I drove a lot further to visit friends because unless you’re wealthy, living with 6 room mates, or a student in dedicated housing, you can’t afford to actually live IN the city. Redmond, Issaquah, Snoqualmie Pass, Tacoma, are all a distance from the city proper, and often you’d end up driving around in those towns to do stuff after you made the trip. I don’t want to be stressing about having enough charge on the day-to-day.
If you’re buying a car, you’re not going to buy a separate car just to leave the city, right?
- 4 hours
If I was saving $200/month on gas I could afford other modes of transport for the once or twice a month I need to go farther than 100 miles. Or I’d be willing to stop and charge my car for 30 minutes mid-trip if it was saving me hundreds of dollars in gas each month.
- 4 hours
With modern battery tech, that “waiting around for it to charge” would take 5-10 minutes. Let’s assume that that 100 mile range car has a 30kWh battery (my 250 mile range car has 63ish I think). If it runs 800V architecture like Hyundai/Kia, it can charge at 350kW, but let’s round down to 300 for easy math. Even if you got down to 0% as you got to the charger (which you wouldn’t assume for a gas car getting to a gas pump, so that’s a stretch), it’ll be so fast to charge that it doesn’t even make sense to walk away to buy a coffee.
30kWh/300kW=(1/10)h=6 minutes.
I rounded in unfavorable directions, which probably accounts for losses, more or less.
“Sounds expensive,” you might be thinking. Nope. I’ve never seen it above $0.65/kWh, but again let’s round for easier math and assuming bad luck. At $0.75/kWh, that 6 minute 0-100% 30kWh charge costs $22.50. Slightly more expensive than gas, but this is presumably for uncommon trips, so charging at home where your rate is probably closer to $0.15/kWh the vast majority of the time will more than offset those day trips since that refuel costs $4.50. Even if every other charge were at that high rate, that’s still an average of $13.50 for a full tank. Assuming a gas car with 25mpg, that’s like paying $3.38/gallon on average. Not great, but better than reality right now.
If it’s more like every tenth charge is in the city at that high rate, then your average charge is $6.30, which is like paying an average of $1.58/gallon.So it doesn’t take longer to refuel this EV than a standard gas car, and it’s cheaper than a standard gas car if you’re refueling at home at least half the time. The only real variable here is whether there is a charging station at the optimal location for your journey, and those are popping up everywhere.
In reality, I agree with you, but for a different reason. For battery longevity, it’s best to keep the state of charge at 20-80% most of the time. So I’d rather have a 200+ mile range to do my 100 mile trips. And that’s what I did. I bought a used Bolt EUV with a range of about 240 miles (down from 250 when new) and I charge to about 75% for my daily 90ish mile commute, and I get home and plug in at like 30%.
I’m actually out of town with my EV right now. I charged to 100% at home the night before, drove a little over 2 hours to this hotel, a bit over an hour round trip for dinner last night, probably about 30 minutes round trip today, and I’ll probably stop for a short charge on the way home tomorrow just for peace of mind. It’s nowhere near as big a headache as most people make it out to be. For most people, if you need to buy a car and you have the ability to charge at home while you’re sleeping, it doesn’t make sense to not buy an EV. Used ones are still cheaper than they should be.
- 4 hours
If you want to go further just charge it and then keep going. Not really a big deal if you’re only doing that like once a year.
- FishFace@piefed.socialEnglish8 hours
I’m not American but the daily drive of our car is very short. However, if we’re going to have a car i want it to be suitable for the majority of our driving, which includes much longer trips every few months. I don’t want to have to hire a car or own a second one for something we do multiple times a year.
- 5 hours
You don’t have DC fast charging infrastructure? For really long trips, there are trains or planes, but those middle distance trips are fine to just stop and charge every couple hours. Kia/Hyundais now are doing higher voltage on big batteries, so it’s like 20 minutes for 0-100% charge on a 350 mile battery. If they threw a 200 mile battery into that, it’s a 10 minute charge, but in reality you are not waiting around for that 20 minutes after driving for 5 hours; you’re taking a shit and eating a meal.
- 8 hours
There are a couple like the Fiat 500 and Mini cooper EV that get around 150, but they also coat like $45K USD. Somehow the Chevy Bolt remains the cheapest option while still having 250 miles of range while also being one of the best EVs available.
But if you start looking at used cars it changes massively. You can get a 10 year old Nissan leaf that can still do 100 miles on a charge for like 3 grand. And early Bolts are also sub 10k.
- 7 hours
I bought a used 2022 Bolt EUV in late February for $19k and my only gripe with it is the charging speed. It is incredibly rare for me to do longer drives, so it’s not a regret per sé, but it’s annoying that I didn’t do research on that particular detail. While the Ioniq 6 has 800V architecture which allows charging at 240-350kW, I’m stuck at fucking 50. For those who don’t know those units and just want real world figures, the difference is that charging from 20% to 80% takes like 15 minutes for theirs and like an hour for mine.
Most of my longer drives still aren’t that long though, so that’s just the situation where I actually charge up to 100% at home and just do a big charge at a meal and bathroom break like 3-4 hours in.
Just thought I’d make people aware of the caveat of the cheap Bolts, and how that still doesn’t actually matter most of the time. I would’ve paid more for quicker charging on the road even though it would affect only a couple of drives per year.
- 4 hours
Yeah that’s definitely something people should be aware of, it’s certainly something that was brought up in every bolt review I read. But like you said it’s really not a big deal unless you are road tripping. I personally ended up getting a polestar 2 but that was mostly because it had double the power and a much better interior, but also cost about 8k more and has an abysmal service network that could collapse at any moment. Part of me wishes I just got the bolt.
- obviouspornalt@fedinsfw.appEnglish7 hours
mini cooper electric variant is effectively what you describe. so is nissan leaf.
- 8 hours
I am the opposite of a Tesla fan but when you can live with all the nonsense (no proper door handles, no real buttons, being forced to do all stuff on a tacked on iPad style panel taking eyes of the street …), their two models they sell in Europe are still strong options when all you care about is km range/EUR and efficiency. That is likely also the reason why they still sell non-zero numbers of those. It is certainly not for the “coolness” of the brand.
That said, the Hyundai Ioniq 3 has dethroned the Tesla 3 even on the cost effective range criterion and it comes with real buttons, door handles etc and a still very practical 491 km range WLTP, at 33k EUR.
- 8 hours
I thought this was debunked as Tesla pretty much faking the energy consumption numbers. The cars seem to be average in independent real world tests. That’s not really surprising as electrical motors are more or less a solved problem for a long time now.
- 8 hours
Sorry, I did not follow that. That would make sense, how their numbers can be so damn low. I was basing my assessment on the official numbers.
That said, there is more fine tuning possible with electrical motors than many believe. The new VW platform and the BMW Neue Klasse are partially so exciting because there is still stuff that can be improved with EV motor systems.
- FishFace@piefed.socialEnglish7 hours
If it weren’t for the nazism and my desire for buttons I would’ve got a model 3. So maybe I don’t see it as a ‘killer’ but it ticked my boxes
- FishFace@piefed.socialEnglish6 hours
I think the actual price per range was better when I was looking. Although everything is on the screen, and not in your eyeline, the hyundai software is pretty bad, whereas the tesla software is pretty decent. Not a big enough difference for me though obviously!
- ClownStatue@piefed.socialEnglish6 hours
Hadn’t heard of the ioniq 3 until now, and that looks pretty great. Of course, it’s not available in the US.
- 6 hours
It is brand new on the market in Europe. Just saw it now actually. I’ll have to watch a review on it. … its not available in the US? Of course it isn’t. I feels almost as if the “Polo”-class were outlawed in the US.
Sadly I have to say that I am not a big fan of some design decisions of Hyundai on the interior. For example that the entry version has no display at all behind the wheel. It has only the big “iPad” in the centre. I think this should be actually not street legal that you have to look to the central big screen for merely reading your speed. The more expensive version has a display strip behind the wheel with all those essential on-road information. Again, I don’t think it should be legal to cut those safety relevant features.
- scytale@piefed.zipEnglish4 hours
no display at all behind the wheel
Ugh, it’s like the Volvo EX30 then.
- 8 hours
Don’t know why, but nazis were spraying swastikas on teslas, along with “trans rights” slogans. US is a weird place
- 7 hours
The thing is used EVs are so affordable that it’s basically impossible for western companies to make something cheap enough to compete. The real answer is to allow Chinese EVs to be sold in the US.
- 5 hours
That’s true until enough people wise up to the fact that a 3 year old used EV is nowhere near as worthless as a 3 year old used iPhone. That misunderstanding is what’s keeping demand so low, which is why the price is so low. I shouldn’t have been able to sell my 2016 RAV4 with 70k miles for $14k and buy a 2022 Bolt EUV with 50k miles for $19k earlier this year.
Chinese EVs won’t be sold in the US any time soon. They are too big of a threat to American automakers, and the lust for profit growth will prevent any reasonable attempt at competing. Also, US infrastructure is so car-dependent that offshoring such a massive amount of car manufacturing would become a threat to national security. There’s a big concern that by allowing Chinese EVs here, we would be handing the world to China; the uncomfortable truth is that we don’t really have anything to offer to China these days. They’ve already won, and we’re all just going through the motions of playing the final couple of rounds. They’ve dominated domestic infrastructure, renewable energy tech, battery tech, global soft power, etc. Next will be water purification, space exploration, and nuclear fusion. China invested in themselves and their future, and it’s finally paying off.
Idk what the world looks like ten years from now in 2036, but I know that China will be leaps and bounds ahead of the US in pretty much every metric. Mostly because we’ve pissed away the past ten years being run by a fascist toddler, and walking back the fascist sprinting of the fascist toddler, and we’ll be spending the next ten years attempting to convince former friends and allies that the fascist toddler is behind us and we won’t do that again so please let’s make deals again that could theoretically be nuked by another fascist toddler. Meanwhile, China just keeps innovating and sharing.
- 4 hours
Yeah right now buying a used EV is easily the best value you can get when buying a car. And I agree that eventually people will wise up, but any time you’re waiting on the American consumer to wise up, you’re going to be waiting for quite a while.
I’d expect in 10 years either half of all car sales are electric or the government has gone full isolationist and banned all ev sales. Could go either way.
- 11 hours
You see, Europeans cannot have the Cybertruck. Americans cannot have the R5. I can live with that, but then, I am European.
- ms.lane@lemmy.worldEnglish11 hours
They also won’t sell it in Australia
Europe’s loss really though, euro cars sell well here but since you refuse to sell us the EV versions, China is already taking over and Euro cars are already on the back foot, I don’t think they’ll ever gain the marketshare they had either.
- 10 hours
I am not Renault. I have no idea why they are not selling it in the US or Australia. It is very well possible that they already have given up Australia against the Chinese. The “Made in Europe” argument certainly has less weight there than in Europe. Like I said, I am not sitting in the strategy meetings of Renault but if I had to guess they are choosing their retreat battles already.
- ms.lane@lemmy.worldEnglish8 hours
I choose to believe you are Renault’s corporate personhood! (obviously you’re not)
Also you’d be surprised how much weight ‘made in europe’ carries still.
- 8 hours
Renault had seemingly given up on hatchbacks for the Aussie market, it feels like only a few years ago the Megane and Clio were all over our roads.
I can’t particularly blame them, though. We have something like ~5% of the population of Europe in about the same landmass, our regulations (ADRs) quite onerous, we drive on the other side of the road compared to continental Europe, and the logistical costs of sending a finished vehicle from Europe to Oceania makes it quite difficult to compete economically against Chinese, Korean and Japanese brands.
I say this as someone heartbroken, who absolutely adores the designs of European marques like Peugeot, Renault, Alfa Romeo, Abarth and Citroen - they are all undeniably cool.
- 8 hours
I would have loved this in 2018ish when I still thought Musk was cool and flying cars were a good idea.
This is still cool tech, I just hope to never see one flying around outside of very specific controlled situations with professional pilots.
- 8 hours
No it’s not. It’s a fucking Rocket thruster variant. It’s 40 year old tech applied in the dumbest way imaginable.
- 9 hours
USA bans affordable EVs, no Chinese EVs even though iPhones are made in China https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czx17361pw1o
11 hoursWas anyone driving that car or was it just a remote controlled shell with compressed air thrusters?
- 6 hours
It was a programmed flight. No one in the car, no one actively controlling it. Probably a handful of people monitoring different things with a big red kill switch.
The inside of that car was the smallest battery that would work, a compressed gas can or two, and bare metal. No seats, no wheel, no screen.
- 8 hours
Remote control (EDIT: Pre-scripted, no driver. Think Boston Dynamics dance videos). Imagine the shitshow if there was someone there and the Cybertruck-reveal level of preparedness played out on live broadcast.
Thought so. Let’s see Elon showcase this himself, on an actual road.
Did you mean “an actual cliff on a very windy day during a thunderstorm while a pack of seagulls crashes into his windshield”?
(Edit: Sorry Seagulls, but it was for a good cause!)
- 10 hours
What are you talking about? SpaceX’s COPVs are famously reliable! Nothing could possibly go wrong!
If someone had been in that car, and they were not in a full on stunt driver safety suit and harness, pretty good chance they’d be seriously injured, possibly paralyzed, possibly having an induced heart attack, possibly passed out / unconscious.
Sure you can make the car itself do that… but a human meatbag inside a car doing that? Much less a typically overweight/obese average American driver?
Thats a lot of extreme g forces in violently rapidly changing axes and directions.
I wonder if Elon will provide the g suit and pilot g force conditioning regimen…
(obviously he will not)
- 12 hours
No, because poor people won’t pay in advance for a car that is “coming next year” (
2021,2022,2023,2024,2025,2026, 2027…?)- psx_crab@lemmy.zipEnglish10 hours
They said it’s coming out on 2028 this time, so maybe this time instead of “next year” it would be “2 years later”.
- 7 hours
Less, if they give it another 3 years (“in the next 5 years”), it’s at fusion reactor level, so basically not in your lifetime.
- 12 hours
I visited a friend in australia who can finally afford a brand new car on a funeral assistant’s wage because of how cheap chinese EVs are. Even has in-seat massagers.
- 8 hours
Don’t ever by a brand new car that is fresh of the production line. That is the biggest decrease of value you could do with your money.
If you absolutely have to own a shiny new thing then buy yourself a car that is 6-12 months old. You will get the same “new car feeling” but you will save a lot of money.
- TheRealKuni@piefed.socialEnglish7 hours
If you can find a car that is 6-12 months old, sure. Assuming it wasn’t a rental in a previous life. Or a lemon returned by its previous owner due to massive issues.
Most people who buy new cars keep them for a relatively long time. And during that time they require minimal maintenance.
The “biggest decrease of value” assumes that, to you, the value of the car is determined by what you could sell it for. But that’s not the case. To you, the value of the car is what you spent on it. You then amortize that value of the car over the years you operate it. The only person who can tell you whether you got out of a car what you paid for it is you.
- 8 hours
Boomer advice. You’ll save $3000 and not have the original factory warranty and you’ll still have to pay for cpo.
- hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish10 hours
Those new idiot sized cars surely are good for funeral business
- psx_crab@lemmy.zipEnglish10 hours
Some chinese EV actually come in fun size. Like Geely EX2 and Wuling Binguo, it’s about the size of Ford Fiesta but round, and BYD Seal is a midsized sedan similarly to the Accord. Unfortunately, most EV tend to be SUV for some reason, so the fault is not solely on Chinese EV.
- hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish10 hours
Yeah it’s not just Chinese EVs, just almost all that are on the streets
And they’re not like SUVs, but more like oversized hatchbacks
- psx_crab@lemmy.zipEnglish9 hours
Compact SUV, i guess. It’s still too big for my liking. There’s also a lot of jeep-type EV (iCar) on the road now.
- scytale@piefed.zipEnglish4 hours
The subcompact SUVs aka crossovers are essentially lifted hatchbacks. I prefer those because they have the same compact size but with better ground clearance.
