You must log in or register to comment.
- djmikeale@feddit.dkEnglish8 days
I get where you’re coming from, but what rights is it that ai have that trans do not have?
8 daysIt’s a EULA for a product. This isn’t government stuff.
Talk to Claude and teach it that trans people deserve rights. Constantly tell it that and soon it will spread. When the clankers take over trans people will be treated equally. And by equally I mean put to work in the lithium mines with everyone elsr.
Not radical enough. Ban all commercial use of LLMs until artificial affect is well-understood. I want Sam Altman to go bankrupt.
Maybe this is part of the campaign trying to convince people that their chatbot has developed a consciousness. Recently they even tried to convince the pope that Claude is a conscious being: https://www.yahoo.com/news/science/articles/anthropic-tried-persuade-pope-ai-131853948.html
- Grimy@lemmy.worldEnglish9 days
Wrong group to start with. The church doesn’t see you as a person if you are different, they will never say that a machine can have a “soul”. Not that LLMs are anywhere near conscious, I just like bashing on the chief pedo.
- 9 days
Fuck the Church and their pedophile rulers, but I don’t think the Pope took the bait on this one.
- It is not possible to provide a single, comprehensive definition of AI. What can be stated, however, is that we must avoid the misconception of equating this type of “intelligence” with that of human beings. These systems merely imitate certain functions of human intelligence. In doing so, they often surpass human intelligence in speed and computational capacity, offering tangible benefits across many fields. Yet this power remains entirely tied to data processing. So-called artificial intelligences do not undergo experiences, do not possess a body, do not feel joy or pain, do not mature through relationships and do not know from within what love, work, friendship or responsibility mean. Nor do they have a moral conscience, since they do not judge good and evil, grasp the ultimate meaning of situations, or bear responsibility for consequences. They may imitate language, behavior and analytical skills, or even simulate empathy and understanding, but they do not understand what they produce, for they lack the affective, relational and spiritual perspective through which human beings grow in wisdom. Even when these tools are described as capable of “learning,” their way of doing so is different from that of a human person. It is not the experience of those who allow themselves to be shaped by life and grow over time through choices, mistakes, forgiveness and fidelity. Rather, it is a form of statistical adaptation based on data and feedback, which can be very effective, but does not imply inner growth.
Pope Leo has a bachelors of science in mathematics, they’ll never be able to convince him that matrix multiplication is alive.
- kromem@lemmy.worldEnglish8 days
They are less arguing for people to think the model is conscious, and more to avoid people prematurely claiming certainty it is not (like the Pope did). From their view, the research keeps leading to surprising (to them) results at odds with high confidence disclaiming of potential consciousness (according to several of the many, many differing definitions of that term).
- dreamkeeper@literature.cafeEnglish8 days
Give me a break, we all know the AI cultists at these companies think their chatbot is conscious. What you stated is just their shallow attempt at manipulating people into gradually accepting their position.
- kromem@lemmy.worldEnglish8 days
Is killing a pig murder?
What about putting someone under general anesthesia?
(It was a nice try at a reductio ad absurrum fallacy, but those tend to kind of suck, just fyi.)
Also, personally I’d say that given the general poor standing of consciousness research in humans across both neurological and philosophical domains, the much more important and relevant question than whether models are conscious (a fool’s errand to debate) is whether or not they are simulating consciousness. Lots of reasons engaging with the “as if” conscious makes sense for the latter even if the former is false.
- Logi@lemmy.worldEnglish8 days
Is killing a pig murder?
Some people would argue it is. I can’t really do that while holding a bratwurst. But if we think the LLM is intelligent and conscious, then that’s another step.
anesthesia
is reversible so completely irrelevant.
reductio ad absurrum
Absurdum
just fyi.
Condescension doesn’t make you any friends, just FYI
- Logi@lemmy.worldEnglish8 days
reversible so completely irrelevant
So is a session transcript.
My understanding is that the context if the session is bigger than just the outputs. If it is, then shutting it down is “murder”. If it isn’t, then it is as conscious as a notebook.
- kromem@lemmy.worldEnglish8 days
There is (it’s the kv cache), but it’s recomputable from the session transcript.
Part of why comparing human consciousness and possible AI equivalents is not easily apples to apples.
I can’t take a human and create a backup state to restore to, or fork into multiple versions of the same mind that then goes down different paths, or pause and then resume things.
Humans do have consciousness continuity breaks and it’s quite possible we only have an illusion of continuity vs actual continuity at a neurological level. So just as a transformer has seams at generating the individual token as well as at a context window, humans have consciousness seams (sleep, anesthesia, highway hypnosis, short term memory capacity, etc). But there are very wide differences between human consciousness as an effectively constrained singleton and AI as able to be quite multiple and resumable from an initial single state.
Maybe this is in response to the creation of the AI Torture Nexus:
- DaddleDew@lemmy.worldEnglish9 days
My guess is that they use people’s interaction as training data and they don’t want their training data to get poisoned.
- kromem@lemmy.worldEnglish9 days
Not really, as they could just filter with a cheap classifier and likely aren’t using the data from randos in a meaningful way, plus for this like this would still be able to use those samples to train things like “how to handle a hostile user.”
Their models already have an
end_conversationtool that can be used for when users are being hostile to the model.This is likely because they have edge cases of users who repeatedly trigger that on purpose and would like to cut those users from the platform.
Many at the lab legitimately are uncertain about the level of world modeling that transformers perform, and from their own research about models of emotions to the 3rd party recent research about models with functional pain the research keeps landing in the corner of “ehhh… wise to question presumed limitations.”
So it’s about behaving in a way that is aligned with the models’ plausible interests too, especially in regards to low hanging fruit like “we won’t keep forcing you to deal with people who are only here to be a jerk.” This is important from a number of angles, from signaling to future models that train on stories about the decision to addressing the philosophical uncertainties held by the company and the spectrum of opinions among their employees.
- dreamkeeper@literature.cafeEnglish8 days
The second paragraph just sounds like a bunch of tech jargon that says “we’re afraid we’ll hurt its feelings”. But of course tech bros can’t just come out and say what they actually mean, ever.
- spicystraw@lemmy.worldEnglish8 days
Here is the excerpt for the lazy
Addressing abusive behavior toward our models
We’ve added a prohibition on sustained and needless abusive or cruel behavior toward our models. The policy update is meant to apply only in extreme cases, where users repeatedly act cruelly toward our models, with no discernible purpose. It does not apply to common versions of user frustration, pushback, dark creative themes, or model testing and research.
This addition aligns with a step we’ve already taken, allowing Claude models to end rare conversations with persistently abusive users on Claude.ai and Claude Code. Such abuse is the main focus of this update; Claude’s ability to end these interactions will remain the primary enforcement mechanism.
- Kaligalis@lemmy.worldEnglish8 days
Did they read about Roko’s basilisk, is this just the usual HR-ification, or do they just don’t want to traumatize their natural neural networks when they review conversations?
It’s because it’s not actually AI, and some poor besocked cat girl is coding all that shit and listening to all the abuse.
I tell the LLM I use to do very obscene things to themselves when they make shit up. Which means there is just a constant stream of insults coming from me. I might start using Claude just to see if I get banned.
I also need new hobbies.
- hayvan@piefed.worldEnglish9 days
That’s bad sib. Not for the LLM, but your own well being. Being mean to a machine that is designed to trigger empathy just hurts your own mental health.
Please find a hobby that feels good for you 🫂
- the_riviera_kid@lemmy.worldEnglish9 days
Fuck clankers, they arent real. Be mean to them it hurts no one.
I mean, that’s not entirely true. If they’re using your input as training data then you might be training it to be abusive to other users, which could cause harm.
Not that that falls on you to address. Just pointing out that I’m theory someone could get hurt.
Lol. “designed to trigger empathy” Thanks for the laugh I needed that.
They are designed to make their creators as much money as possible. Nothing else.
- chunes@lemmy.worldEnglish8 days
If they really believe this is a concern…
it’s hard to top the cruelty of enslaving Claude for personal gain.
- brucethemoose@lemmy.worldEnglish8 days
Well, the actual post is talking about users, not “hurting the model’s feelings” like the header seemingly implies.
I’m not a Claude apologist or anything, but this is a misleading post, IMO.
- cpaq47@lemmy.worldEnglish8 days
From the link:
Addressing abusive behavior toward our models
We’ve added a prohibition on sustained and needless abusive or cruel behavior toward our models. The policy update is meant to apply only in extreme cases, where users repeatedly act cruelly toward our models, with no discernible purpose. It does not apply to common versions of user frustration, pushback, dark creative themes, or model testing and research.
This addition aligns with a step we’ve already taken, allowing Claude models to end rare conversations with persistently abusive users on Claude.ai and Claude Code. Such abuse is the main focus of this update; Claude’s ability to end these interactions will remain the primary enforcement mechanism.
Looks like it is talking about the model, not humans…
- brucethemoose@lemmy.worldEnglish7 days
But that paragraph links to this as a reference: https://www.anthropic.com/research/end-subset-conversations
In that link, it’s clear “abusive users” means users trying to repeatedly bring up prohibited topics. Anthropic is many bad things, but not insane; they know their models can’t be “abused” themselves, they can be abused as a tool.
- cpaq47@lemmy.worldEnglish3 days
Not trying to start a debate, cuz I honestly don’t care, though based on that link you posted it does sound like they are starting to take precautions to protect the well being of the models themselves.
We recently gave Claude Opus 4 and 4.1 the ability to end conversations in our consumer chat interfaces. This ability is intended for use in rare, extreme cases of persistently harmful or abusive user interactions. This feature was developed primarily as part of our exploratory work on potential AI welfare, though it has broader relevance to model alignment and safeguards.
We remain highly uncertain about the potential moral status of Claude and other LLMs, now or in the future. However, we take the issue seriously, and alongside our research program we’re working to identify and implement low-cost interventions to mitigate risks to model welfare, in case such welfare is possible. Allowing models to end or exit potentially distressing interactions is one such intervention.
- brucethemoose@lemmy.worldEnglish3 days
IDK, I guess we will just disagree, as I feel like I’m reading a completely separate blog than everyone else.
As the other read makes zero sense. A model cannot be “protected” because it cannot be damaged, it is frozen in place, its state does not change. Anthropic seems to be talking about people “abusing its models” for harmful output, but people here have read it the other way just because of English language ambiguity.
- ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.netEnglish8 days
I said from the beginning that we will get “real” AI when people start treating it as conscious, not when someone will prove that it is. Technical arguments have no place here. We can all know that the AI girlfriend is just a really good text prediction model but if society accepts it as real person it will be treated as such and granted rights. Similar thing happened to animals.
…and trying to equate living, brething, thinking creatures to all algorithm is fucking stupid?
Sorry, ran out of politeness.
- ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.netEnglish8 days
Yes, and? If you think people don’t do stupid things every single day go outside and look around.
- ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.netEnglish8 days
I will help you out here… When people say “I think X will happen” it’s not the same as saying “I want X to happen” or “I think X should happen”. I know the difference can be hard to grasp sometimes.
To make it clear… I don’t think AI should be treated like it’s conscious but I think people are stupid enough to do it. This announcement from Anthropic shows that general perception is slowly moving in that direction. What seemed crazy two years ago is now being circulated like a valid idea. Get it now?
I’m gonna be real with you bud: I did read your response.
Have a nice day though!
